I recently acquired a Remington 14 in 35 Rem. I know it was made in November 1928 thanks to this site! Somewhere in it's past, a previous owner didn't take very good care of the old girl and I'm trying to get her back in deer hunting trim.
One issue I'm dealing with is- if the trigger is held back when the slide is operated, it often won't cock and sometimes, from the sound, appears to slam fire like a Winchester model 12. I know Pedersen designed the 14 to prevent Model 12-type slam fires. Should this rifle actually not cock if the trigger is held back?
Also, the trigger spring seems to be pushing the trigger back (fired position) rather than trying to push it forward into the cocked position. This seems counterintuitive to me, but I've never held a 14 until I got this one. If the trigger is released before the slide is stroked, the trigger is moved into the cocked position, and everything functions as normal.
Any thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated! And thanks to those who created this wealth of knowledge! I've been lurking here many times. Great info!
Remington 14 Trigger issue
Re: Remington 14 Trigger issue
Welcome to the wonderful world of the Remington Model 14! No, the rifle should NOT cock if the trigger is held back, curious as to why you would want to do that.
If you purchased a rifle from the internet where the seller stated "this needs to be checked out by a competent gunsmith" then you probably purchased a problem rifle. The problem is that few if any gunsmiths have ever seen one of these and secondly if they have seen one they don't have the parts to repair it.
Most Model 14's sold over the "net" have problems, one of which is that a previous owner wanted to improve the trigger pull so he messed with the sear and/or trigger which is about the only way to make these rifles "slam-fire".
Without having the rifle on my bench its impossible to give you any other guidance so I can only wish you good luck. I will take the time to repeat what I have said on the forum many times, 90% of all load, feed, fire, and eject problems are caused by reloaded ammunition so keep that in mind when/if you get the action working to your satisfaction.
Jim Peterson
Charlotte, NC
If you purchased a rifle from the internet where the seller stated "this needs to be checked out by a competent gunsmith" then you probably purchased a problem rifle. The problem is that few if any gunsmiths have ever seen one of these and secondly if they have seen one they don't have the parts to repair it.
Most Model 14's sold over the "net" have problems, one of which is that a previous owner wanted to improve the trigger pull so he messed with the sear and/or trigger which is about the only way to make these rifles "slam-fire".
Without having the rifle on my bench its impossible to give you any other guidance so I can only wish you good luck. I will take the time to repeat what I have said on the forum many times, 90% of all load, feed, fire, and eject problems are caused by reloaded ammunition so keep that in mind when/if you get the action working to your satisfaction.
Jim Peterson
Charlotte, NC
Jim Peterson
Re: Remington 14 Trigger issue
Thanks!
"the rifle should NOT cock if the trigger is held back, curious as to why you would want to do that."
Most of my guns will still cock if the trigger is held back when the action is operated. Then you release the trigger, and it resets. All of my semis, of course; my pump shotguns; my Savage 170 pump .30-30, and my 760 30-06. I don't normally hold the trigger back when stroking a slide, but it could happen. Bolts and levers require the firing hand leave the grip so it would be difficult to do it with those.
It's all good. I wouldn't be surprised if someone messed with it over the years. After all, it's 97 years old! LOL This issue is obviously not linked to ammo as it happens with the gun unloaded. With respect to ammo, it was difficult to feed the Hornady 200 FTX factory ammo into the magazine tube. IF I was extra careful about not letting the gummy tip get off the front of the follower it could be done. My reloaded Hornady 200gr RNs and my RCBS-style 200gr FN cast slipped right in. All functioned well through the rifle and the most accurate was a Hornady 200RN with 43gr. of LVR and a CCI-200. A one hole 5 shot group at 50yds (with peep sights and 61yo eyes so some of it may have been luck LOL!). A lot more testing to come. I've been reloading for 45 years and reload 16 rifle calibers and 8 pistol.
Th more I handle this rifle - the more I like it. Tight, obviously well made, quick to the shoulder. I'm sure it's going to be a great deer rifle.
BTW When I said a previous owner didn't take care of it that goes up to a ringed bore about 1 1/2" in from the muzzle. I'm so glad it still seems to shoot well enough for 100yd whitetails. Otherwise, it would be on its way to becoming a "carbine".
Thanks again!
John
"the rifle should NOT cock if the trigger is held back, curious as to why you would want to do that."
Most of my guns will still cock if the trigger is held back when the action is operated. Then you release the trigger, and it resets. All of my semis, of course; my pump shotguns; my Savage 170 pump .30-30, and my 760 30-06. I don't normally hold the trigger back when stroking a slide, but it could happen. Bolts and levers require the firing hand leave the grip so it would be difficult to do it with those.
It's all good. I wouldn't be surprised if someone messed with it over the years. After all, it's 97 years old! LOL This issue is obviously not linked to ammo as it happens with the gun unloaded. With respect to ammo, it was difficult to feed the Hornady 200 FTX factory ammo into the magazine tube. IF I was extra careful about not letting the gummy tip get off the front of the follower it could be done. My reloaded Hornady 200gr RNs and my RCBS-style 200gr FN cast slipped right in. All functioned well through the rifle and the most accurate was a Hornady 200RN with 43gr. of LVR and a CCI-200. A one hole 5 shot group at 50yds (with peep sights and 61yo eyes so some of it may have been luck LOL!). A lot more testing to come. I've been reloading for 45 years and reload 16 rifle calibers and 8 pistol.
Th more I handle this rifle - the more I like it. Tight, obviously well made, quick to the shoulder. I'm sure it's going to be a great deer rifle.
BTW When I said a previous owner didn't take care of it that goes up to a ringed bore about 1 1/2" in from the muzzle. I'm so glad it still seems to shoot well enough for 100yd whitetails. Otherwise, it would be on its way to becoming a "carbine".
Thanks again!
John
Re: Remington 14 Trigger issue
For whatever its worth you should NEVER use ballistic tip or ANY pointed ammunition in these rifles, nor should you use hard cast lead bullets unless you load them directly into the chamber. The rifle was designed in 1910 to use only pristine RN ammunition and in fact came with a "hang tag" that states exactly that. The feed system is designed for RN only and after 50+ years of doing repairs on these I can tell you that ballistic tips was a boon to my business because little slivers would shear off jamming the feed system, same with hard cast bullets where tiny seemingly harmless slivers can get in places where you don't want them.
Not trying to be overly sarcastic here but you stated "your other rifles" as pertaining to them cocking BUT the thing is these are not like other rifles, a unique design like no other, and they are really-really fussy about the ammunition you put through them. Based on my experience and that of other experienced Model 14/141 owners, use 200gr RN bullets, always use a factory crimp die, set your seating dies using an original factory round, don't reload brass more than 2-3 times because the feed system is brutal to the brass. Original brass is hard to find but Hornady stuff works great but the feed/eject system will beat up/nick the edges and after cleaning them 2-3 times they become just enough under size so they eject poorly.
Will try to attach a picture of an original hang tag but one more "tip" is you will need to "snug" up the stock bolt after each 40 rounds or so, they shoot loose, and when they do the stock bolt will flex against the stock causing it to crack. The stock design is weak to begin with because of pilot holes necessary for shaping the stock located where the wood meets the frame are essentially "crack starters" and now the wood is near or over 100 years old.
Do what you think best but the above is the best information I can provide!
Jim Peterson
Charlotte, NC
Not trying to be overly sarcastic here but you stated "your other rifles" as pertaining to them cocking BUT the thing is these are not like other rifles, a unique design like no other, and they are really-really fussy about the ammunition you put through them. Based on my experience and that of other experienced Model 14/141 owners, use 200gr RN bullets, always use a factory crimp die, set your seating dies using an original factory round, don't reload brass more than 2-3 times because the feed system is brutal to the brass. Original brass is hard to find but Hornady stuff works great but the feed/eject system will beat up/nick the edges and after cleaning them 2-3 times they become just enough under size so they eject poorly.
Will try to attach a picture of an original hang tag but one more "tip" is you will need to "snug" up the stock bolt after each 40 rounds or so, they shoot loose, and when they do the stock bolt will flex against the stock causing it to crack. The stock design is weak to begin with because of pilot holes necessary for shaping the stock located where the wood meets the frame are essentially "crack starters" and now the wood is near or over 100 years old.
Do what you think best but the above is the best information I can provide!
Jim Peterson
Charlotte, NC
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Jim Peterson
Re: Remington 14 Trigger issue
Thanks for the insight, Jim! That tag is cool! I save old stuff like that, too.
There's lots of conflicting information about these rifles out there and it's good to hear from someone who really knows them. What I had heard from many sources was that the spiral flutes in the magazine tube were to allow pointed bullets to offset to avoid a magazine tube detonation. The FTX ammo I bought were mostly for the brass and the opportunity to initially test fire it with factory ammo. The FTXs were the only .35 Remington ammo I could find at several LGSs. I tried the FTX bullets in my .30-30s and none of them liked them for accuracy vs 150gr and 170gr RNs. I already have a few boxes of Hornady 200gr RN bullets on the way for my 14. I'm also going to try the Speer 180gr FN when I can find them. Unless the 180s shoot much better, this rifle can expect a steady diet of the Hornadys. I won't be shooting it often enough or far enough that I need to get too creative.
I' still going to look closely at the trigger, sear, and sear lock interfaces because I want to make sure there is no risk of a slam fire. I don't have a problem ensuring I release the trigger before working the pump but if something has been bubba'ed I would like to unscrew it before this rifle moves on to its next owner (my daughter).
To your other point, I've seen a lot of poorly made reloaded and reman ammo, as well. If you're going to load your own ammo, take the time to do it right, work up slowly, and don't use it as an opportunity to take a cartridge where it wasn't designed to go. I load for accuracy. My guns all seem to have a specific load that makes them sing. 1/2 grain of powder either way from that and there are usually noticeable differences. Also, out of all the loads I've developed for my guns, the only one that shot best at max was one of my 6.5 Grendel ARs and that one only with a specific 123gr bullet. For 90s and 100s, we're 1 1/2 and 2gr below max, respectively.
Thanks again! Great info!
John
There's lots of conflicting information about these rifles out there and it's good to hear from someone who really knows them. What I had heard from many sources was that the spiral flutes in the magazine tube were to allow pointed bullets to offset to avoid a magazine tube detonation. The FTX ammo I bought were mostly for the brass and the opportunity to initially test fire it with factory ammo. The FTXs were the only .35 Remington ammo I could find at several LGSs. I tried the FTX bullets in my .30-30s and none of them liked them for accuracy vs 150gr and 170gr RNs. I already have a few boxes of Hornady 200gr RN bullets on the way for my 14. I'm also going to try the Speer 180gr FN when I can find them. Unless the 180s shoot much better, this rifle can expect a steady diet of the Hornadys. I won't be shooting it often enough or far enough that I need to get too creative.
I' still going to look closely at the trigger, sear, and sear lock interfaces because I want to make sure there is no risk of a slam fire. I don't have a problem ensuring I release the trigger before working the pump but if something has been bubba'ed I would like to unscrew it before this rifle moves on to its next owner (my daughter).
To your other point, I've seen a lot of poorly made reloaded and reman ammo, as well. If you're going to load your own ammo, take the time to do it right, work up slowly, and don't use it as an opportunity to take a cartridge where it wasn't designed to go. I load for accuracy. My guns all seem to have a specific load that makes them sing. 1/2 grain of powder either way from that and there are usually noticeable differences. Also, out of all the loads I've developed for my guns, the only one that shot best at max was one of my 6.5 Grendel ARs and that one only with a specific 123gr bullet. For 90s and 100s, we're 1 1/2 and 2gr below max, respectively.
Thanks again! Great info!
John
Re: Remington 14 Trigger issue
Thanks for the insight, Jim! That tag is cool! I save old stuff like that, too.
There's lots of conflicting information about these rifles out there and it's good to hear from someone who really knows them. What I had heard from many sources was that the spiral flutes in the magazine tube were to allow pointed bullets to offset to avoid a magazine tube detonation. The FTX ammo I bought were mostly for the brass and the opportunity to initially test fire it with factory ammo. The FTXs were the only .35 Remington ammo I could find at several LGSs. I tried the FTX bullets in my .30-30s and none of them liked them for accuracy vs 150gr and 170gr RNs. I already have a few boxes of Hornady 200gr RN bullets on the way for my 14. I'm also going to try the Speer 180gr FN when I can find them. Unless the 180s shoot much better, this rifle can expect a steady diet of the Hornadys. I won't be shooting it often enough or far enough that I need to get too creative.
I' still going to look closely at the trigger, sear, and sear lock interfaces because I want to make sure there is no risk of a slam fire. I don't have a problem ensuring I release the trigger before working the pump but if something has been bubba'ed I would like to unscrew it before this rifle moves on to its next owner (my daughter).
To your other point, I've seen a lot of poorly made reloaded and reman ammo, as well. If you're going to load your own ammo, take the time to do it right, work up slowly, and don't use it as an opportunity to take a cartridge where it wasn't designed to go. I load for accuracy. My guns all seem to have a specific load that makes them sing. 1/2 grain of powder either way from that and there are usually noticeable differences. Also, out of all the loads I've developed for my guns, the only one that shot best at max was one of my 6.5 Grendel ARs and that one only with a specific 123gr bullet. For 90s and 100s, we're 1 1/2 and 2gr below max, respectively.
Thanks again! Great info!
John
There's lots of conflicting information about these rifles out there and it's good to hear from someone who really knows them. What I had heard from many sources was that the spiral flutes in the magazine tube were to allow pointed bullets to offset to avoid a magazine tube detonation. The FTX ammo I bought were mostly for the brass and the opportunity to initially test fire it with factory ammo. The FTXs were the only .35 Remington ammo I could find at several LGSs. I tried the FTX bullets in my .30-30s and none of them liked them for accuracy vs 150gr and 170gr RNs. I already have a few boxes of Hornady 200gr RN bullets on the way for my 14. I'm also going to try the Speer 180gr FN when I can find them. Unless the 180s shoot much better, this rifle can expect a steady diet of the Hornadys. I won't be shooting it often enough or far enough that I need to get too creative.
I' still going to look closely at the trigger, sear, and sear lock interfaces because I want to make sure there is no risk of a slam fire. I don't have a problem ensuring I release the trigger before working the pump but if something has been bubba'ed I would like to unscrew it before this rifle moves on to its next owner (my daughter).
To your other point, I've seen a lot of poorly made reloaded and reman ammo, as well. If you're going to load your own ammo, take the time to do it right, work up slowly, and don't use it as an opportunity to take a cartridge where it wasn't designed to go. I load for accuracy. My guns all seem to have a specific load that makes them sing. 1/2 grain of powder either way from that and there are usually noticeable differences. Also, out of all the loads I've developed for my guns, the only one that shot best at max was one of my 6.5 Grendel ARs and that one only with a specific 123gr bullet. For 90s and 100s, we're 1 1/2 and 2gr below max, respectively.
Thanks again! Great info!
John