I have a side by side 12 ga. Has hammers identified to be model 1889. Remington Arms Co, Ilion NY USA is stamped on rib area between barrels just in front of hammers. Remington Arms Co. is stamped on both sides near hammers. Underneath the forestock both the metal piece and wood is stamped 213493 which appears to be the serial number. Also on this metal piece is stamped 378. Under the barrels where the forestock covers, each barrel is stamped with an F followed by a dash followed by an arrow followed by what looks like a P. When I break open so as to load shells, i notice just aft of the hinge, the 213493 again stamped as well as 378 and 26 and an R and the number 1.
First, I am looking for confirmation of the model and year manufactured. Secondly, I can not tell if the barrels are damascus. I do not believe they are as they appear like any other aged steel barrel. This gun has been in my family since the middle 1930's and I know it has had lots of shells shot through these barrels during all these years. Thirdly, I am unable to break the rear stock apart from the barrels for cleaning. I took it to a local gunsmith and he had no luck either. He said there must be a special trick to it. Can anyone help me with these questions and any other info on this model. I plan on keeping this in the family and would like to keep it as a shooter as well.
Thanks!
info and break down of model 1889 side by side
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bearrun767
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Based on the serial number your gun is an 1889 model made in 1901. If the barrels don't show a damascus pattern they are probably steel which was supplied on the 1889. I don't understand why you can't remove the barrels from the frame? Just put your finger in the finger hole on the bottom of the forearm and pull the lever out of the forearm. The fore arm can be removed and then the barrels will come off. It may be that the forearm latch is not disengaging for some reason if the forearm doesn't come free. You may have to tal it lightly with a hammer to get it to travel all the way free. I hope you are not trying to remove the butt stock from the frame? There is no to do this. Jay Huber RSA
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bearrun767
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info and break down of model 1889 side by side
Thanks for responding Jay. There is a 3/4 moon pin that is just above a screw right at the barrel hinge point. When breaking open the barrels with the release, this 3/4 moon pin first comes out around 1/16 of an inch then I can push it back in until flush. Is there possibly a spring supposed to be under there with tension? (I am not trying to remove the buttstock, but just trying to get the barrels off to give it a thorough cleaning.) Just to clarify, with the barrels broken open, would one tap on the aft part of the barrels or the fore end (sight end) of the barrels? Thanks! Phil
Phil,
The number 1 left of the serial number 213493 on the water table indicates it is a grade one, decarbonized steel barrels. That "3/4 moon" is actually the bolt stop pin. It regulates the locking bolt trave. It has to be sticking out for the barrels to come off. I think there might be internal gunk around the pin. Try penitrating oil on the pin. Make sure you push the top lever fully to the right when trying to get the barrels off.
Charlie
The number 1 left of the serial number 213493 on the water table indicates it is a grade one, decarbonized steel barrels. That "3/4 moon" is actually the bolt stop pin. It regulates the locking bolt trave. It has to be sticking out for the barrels to come off. I think there might be internal gunk around the pin. Try penitrating oil on the pin. Make sure you push the top lever fully to the right when trying to get the barrels off.
Charlie
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bearrun767
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- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:44 pm
Thanks Jay and Charlie!
I attempted all that and to no avail. I am able to get the forestock off as normal. Whether the barrels are open or closed, this bolt stop pin does come out approx 1/8 inch. It can be physically pushed back in or can slide in and out with gravity. I made attempt to pull it out further with needle nose pliers, but it would not come out any further. Could that bolt stop pin be possibly broken somewhere down inside? It doesnt seem normal that it moves this freely. I am thinking that the aft part of this pin is broken and not disengaging whatever it disengages in the back. Any idea on the length of this pin. What purpose does the screw have that sits just underneath this pin?
There is another pin (Is this called the "locking bolt")running underneath the barrels that appears to normally lock the barrels down in the closed position. With the barrels fully broken open, if one takes the top lever and moves it to the right, this pin only moves back and forth 1/32nd of an inch. Is that normal?
Everything else on this gun seems to be tight, and functioning normally.
Phil
I attempted all that and to no avail. I am able to get the forestock off as normal. Whether the barrels are open or closed, this bolt stop pin does come out approx 1/8 inch. It can be physically pushed back in or can slide in and out with gravity. I made attempt to pull it out further with needle nose pliers, but it would not come out any further. Could that bolt stop pin be possibly broken somewhere down inside? It doesnt seem normal that it moves this freely. I am thinking that the aft part of this pin is broken and not disengaging whatever it disengages in the back. Any idea on the length of this pin. What purpose does the screw have that sits just underneath this pin?
There is another pin (Is this called the "locking bolt")running underneath the barrels that appears to normally lock the barrels down in the closed position. With the barrels fully broken open, if one takes the top lever and moves it to the right, this pin only moves back and forth 1/32nd of an inch. Is that normal?
Everything else on this gun seems to be tight, and functioning normally.
Phil
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bearrun767
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- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:44 pm
I was finally able to get it!!
The problem was that when I moved the lever all the way to the right, it was bumping up against the right hammer. What I had to do was to push in the right hammer up against the rear of the firing pin allowing the lever to move just a little more to the right.
I want to thank everyone for their help and information. This double barrel is one of 2 guns that I have from my grandparents who raised 10 children, using this gun for putting food on the table. It is a great joy knowing that my 4 and 6 year old will grow up being able to hunt in the same woods with the same early 1900's guns that their great grandparents used.
Just one more question now that I can see them. There are 2 sets of numbers, "42" and "48" stamped on the locking hook (just under the ejector) that holds down the barrel in the closed position. Could these be the barrel patterning numbers when factory tested that I have read about, and if so, how are they interpreted?
Thanks! Phil
The problem was that when I moved the lever all the way to the right, it was bumping up against the right hammer. What I had to do was to push in the right hammer up against the rear of the firing pin allowing the lever to move just a little more to the right.
I want to thank everyone for their help and information. This double barrel is one of 2 guns that I have from my grandparents who raised 10 children, using this gun for putting food on the table. It is a great joy knowing that my 4 and 6 year old will grow up being able to hunt in the same woods with the same early 1900's guns that their great grandparents used.
Just one more question now that I can see them. There are 2 sets of numbers, "42" and "48" stamped on the locking hook (just under the ejector) that holds down the barrel in the closed position. Could these be the barrel patterning numbers when factory tested that I have read about, and if so, how are they interpreted?
Thanks! Phil
Phil,
Good going, I should have thought the right hammer was getting in the way.
The screw you speak of holds the bolt stop pin in place. And yes, that is the locking bolt that moves and it is normal. The 42 and 48 are indeed pellet counts. Every gun left the factory with a hanging tag and on that tag was the targetting of the gun from the factory. We have only a few original hang tags but it does tell us with a 12 gauge gun, Remington normally used 1 1/4oz. of #8 shot. The 42/48 is actually 342 and 348, the amount of pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards. According to their chart, appx. 306 pellets was considered modified and 383 pellets was full choke. That would equate to your gun being choked pretty much modified/modified.
Charlie
Good going, I should have thought the right hammer was getting in the way.
The screw you speak of holds the bolt stop pin in place. And yes, that is the locking bolt that moves and it is normal. The 42 and 48 are indeed pellet counts. Every gun left the factory with a hanging tag and on that tag was the targetting of the gun from the factory. We have only a few original hang tags but it does tell us with a 12 gauge gun, Remington normally used 1 1/4oz. of #8 shot. The 42/48 is actually 342 and 348, the amount of pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards. According to their chart, appx. 306 pellets was considered modified and 383 pellets was full choke. That would equate to your gun being choked pretty much modified/modified.
Charlie
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bearrun767
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- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 12:44 pm
Thanks For the question Phil
I have been trying to get the barrels off of my 1889 Remi for over a year and gave up in frustration. With the responses to your question I was able to finally get mine apart. I wonder if this is a common problem with these old guns?? 
Thanks a Bunch
Terry
Thanks a BunchTerry