information on 20 ga rolling block please

[Cole]

Passed on to me from my central-PA great, grandfather is a 20 gauge on which as pictured appears:

- faint Remington trade mark
- "653" on lower left tang
- "P" on the bottom of the 30 1/2" barrel, under the forearm that bears GGF's initials

The 13" stock appears to have been shorten and fits poorly but there is also a new replacement forearm and stock with a curved butt plate.

Although Remington made 16 and 20 gauges, I also see on You Tube that Model-1 50-70 rifles that may have been with the NY militia were also rebored to 20 ga by Francis Bannerman.

Can you please tell me more about the likely age and history of this gun from my family tree? Also, if the new forearm and stock were put on for very infrequent shooting, how much care need be taken to remove any light, sparse rust to "shine it up", but not harm/damage the patina and brownish blueing?

RSA is an incredible resource! Thank you.

[Researcher]

According to Mike Alsop's articles in The Remington Collector's Journal, the earliest guns were chambered for a 16B brass shell with Draper primer and came with one. Later they were said to be chambered for the 16B brass shell and would also take a 20-gauge paper shell. By the 1880s they were just listed as being 20-gauge. From an 1878 E. Remington & Sons booklet --

Rolling Block shotgun 1878.jpeg (254.9 KiB) Viewed 780 times

1884 E.C. Meachum catalog --

Rolling Block Shotgun 1884 E.C. Meachum catalog.jpeg (144.48 KiB) Viewed 780 times

[Cole]

Researcher-
Thank you very much for this information about the history of this gun that I have since learned probably had not belonged to my great, great grandfather but instead a great uncle. I have enjoyed restoring it and the background you have provided will add more meaning and appreciation to my first shot with it and use thereafter.
Truly,
Cole

[Researcher]

At the time these rolling block shotguns were made, there were no "factory loaded" shotgun shells. The big companies, Winchester, Union Metallic Cartridge Co. and E. Remington & Sons (ammunition plant blew up as I recall during 1886 4th of July celebrations and never reopened) provided brass or paper cases, but they were loaded by shooters themselves or by your local hardware of sporting goods store. While a few smokeless powders were available, most were loading black powder. Companies sprang up around the country loading shotgun shells in cases provided by the big manufacturers, most notable Selby in San Francisco and Chamberlin Cartridge Co. in Cleveland. Union Metallic Cartridge Co. began offering factory loaded shotgun shells in 1891 and Winchester by 1893. By the mid 1890s smokeless powder shotgun shells were coming on strong but by then E. Remington & Sons had gone into receivership and emerged as Remington Arms Co. and their single barrel shotgun offering was the Model 1893 --

Model 1893.jpg (71.88 KiB) Viewed 754 times

[Cole]

Thank you Researcher for continuing to provide information about the 20 ga rolling block!

It has been suggested to me that it could have originally been a Navy 50-caliber rolling block rifle that was later rebored to be the shotgun?

Could this be so and do "653" near the left side of the trigger and "P" at two locations near the forearm on the 30 1/2 Inch long barrel shed any light on this?

Cole