Rolling Block No. 1 “Late Model”.

[1 Old Gunner]

So what determines whether a Rolling Block is a “late model”? Is ”Late model” an actual Remington designation or a modern construct used by collectors etc?
Is it determined by date of manufacture? If so, how is the build date determined?
Is it determined by patent dates? If so, what year?

Is it based on components? Components such as: Rotary style extractor, Free-float firing pin, full size forestock, (3) barrel clamps with screw fasteners, no bayonet lug.

Are there any distinguishing marks that indicate “Late model”, such as the 3- line March 18th, 1874 patent?

Thank you, 1 Old Gunner

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

I'm not sure if you mean military or sporting rolling blocks. I collect
the military ones and I can only speak to them.

There isn't really very much difference in the later models except
by designation. Most late models conform to the patterns of 1896,
1897, 1902 and 1910. The 1902 and 1910 will have the 1901 patent
date on the tang referring to the late type rotary ejector. These
late model rolling blocks have a more modern metallurgy and heat
treating to withstand the higher pressures of early smokeless powder
cartridges. Probably the easiest way to distinguish these models are
the rear sight (which was unique to these late model military rifles).

There are some small changes in the breach block and firing pin config-
uration during this later period but are easily overlooked. I direct the
OP to George Layman's book: Remington Rolling Block Military Rifles of
the World for more details.

The tang markings did change over time. Earlier models had REMINGTON or
REMINGTONS and later changed to E. REMINGTON & SONS until 1888 when
the Company was sold to satisfy court ordered bankruptcy filed in 1886.
Then the markings changed to REMINGTON ARMS COMPANY. Later some-
time between 1911 and 1914, the Remington Company and the Union
Metallic Cartridge Co. were merged and the name changed to REMINGTON UMC.

I don't know if this will help but it is what I know.

Cheers!
Webb

[1 Old Gunner]

WLW,
I'll look for the book you referenced. Thanks.
Again, focusing on terminology, the term "Late" seems to be more as a general frame of reference vs. a defined designation. I should therefore be attempting to identify the "Pattern" of my rifle.
You listed several pattern years 1896 - 1901. Are these patterns all different iterations of the Model#1? I don't want to get Patterns confused with the other rolling block Models 1-1/2, 2, 4, 5, 6, etc.

In your opinion what Model 1 Pattern would you suggest I have?
1. Barrel 33.75". Chamber diameter at Bore - .522". Muzzle diameter .439". There is a letter B stamped on the left barrel flat. The letter V and the letters HP are stamped under the recoil lug. I haven't made a casting of the barrel yet.
2. No bayonet lug on right side. This rifle does have a socket style, 3-sided bayonet. (Suggesting it was intended for military service?)
3. Full length wood forestock with (3) bands that are fastened with screws.
4. It has a 4-step rear sight with a fold-up leaf with gradients up to 10.
5. The breach block action employs a rotary extractor.
6. The firing pin assembly employs a free-float firing pin and lever operated firing pin retractor.
7. Receiver markings include: three lines of patent dates ending with “March 18th, 1874”, 1228 is stamped on the receiver’s right side, 32446 is stamped on the left-side of both upper and lower tangs.
8. The ramrod retainer is the “cone” type. It is recessed in two grooves in the front of the receiver.
9. Butt Stock Assembly: The steel Butt Plate has no markings. There are no marks on outside of the stock or under the butt plate. A small number “5” is stamped in the upper tang recess. The rear sling swivel is secured by a bracket screwed into the bottom of the stock. The swivel is stamped: “Pat: Feb: 11th 1868”.

[marlinman93]

Rotary extractors were used on Rolling Blocks prior to smokeless actions, so can't determine age by those. The later actions were as mentioned a better alloy and withstand higher pressures. But they also have more metal in their receivers and are especially thicker in the threaded area of the receivers.

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

The "late" military rolling blocks are technically the No. 5 action.
These were the same as the No. 1 except for the metallurgy. As
I mentioned, the metallurgy was updated for the newer (relatively
speaking) smokeless powder small diameter military ammunition.

From the pictures, yours resembles a fourth type, No. 1 military
action. The serial number stamped on the right side of the action
is indicative of the Remington Rolling Blocks sold to Costa Rica.
The 5 digit number on the upper and lower tangs are assembly
numbers. These were used so that the upper and lower halves
of the action would be reunited after case hardening.

The dimensions of the chamber and bore are indicative of the
.43 Spanish cartridge (which was used by almost all Central and
South American Countries which purchased rolling blocks for their
militaries). The "Spanish" model rolling block was the most common
Remington military rolling block sold.

The barrel length of yours is a little shorter than the standard length
Spanish model but is the correct length for Costa Rica. Measure the
distance the rear sight is in front of the breech. The Costa Rican
rolling block had the rear sight closer than standard at 3-1/4" IIRC
(Standard was Appox. 3-7/8").

Most Costa Rican rolling blocks were ordered for the socket bayonet
but 500 of the 1800 ordered were made for saber bayonet.

The No. 1, 4th type action was the flat sided action using the rotary
extractor (the later No. 5 used a different rotary extractor that was
actually an ejector; it would kick the shells out instead of just pulling
them out slightly).

I am not that familiar with the Costa Rican rolling block so I cannot
tell you what the "V" or "HP" marks are but I haven't removed the recoil
lug on mine but the "B" on the side of the barrel is a standard Remington
inspector's mark.

All other aspects of your configuration are typical of the No. 1 fourth
type action and Remington's standard military rifle.

If you are serious about learning more about Remington military rolling
blocks, get George Layman's book mentioned in my earlier post.

Cheers!
Webb