#1 1/2 Rolling Block Cadet Rifle

[marlinman93]

I just won this rifle at a local auction, and very happy to find one as they're a rare bird! It's a #1 1/2 Sporting Rifle action, buttplate and buttstock that Remington used along with a 28" military style barrel and forearm assembly to sell to military academies back in the 1800's.
I've seen only two others previously, which were in nicer shape, but too spendy to consider. Although reference books don't mention these rifles, they were all special order, and defy the reference materials that all state the #1 1/2 were in pistol length cartridges up to .44-40. These Cadet rifles were factory chambered in .45-70, likely to make use of military ammo available at this time.
Unsure of the exact time frame when they were made, but guessing 1870's-1880's?

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Very nice! Tell me please, how long is the barrel?

Cheers!
Webb

[marlinman93]

Hi There,

Very nice! Tell me please, how long is the barrel?

Cheers!
Webb

These were all made with 28" barrels.

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Thank you for the measurement. I not familiar with the cadet
model. I have one in my collection that I have been trying to
identify. It has a thinner than normal #1 action and has a 31"
barrel in 50-70.

Cheers!
Webb

[marlinman93]

Hi There,

Thank you for the measurement. I not familiar with the cadet
model. I have one in my collection that I have been trying to
identify. It has a thinner than normal #1 action and has a 31"
barrel in 50-70.

Cheers!
Webb

There were several Cadet models. If yours is a .50-70 then it's likely it's one of those built on the same action as the Rolling Block pistols. They also made one on the #4 Rolling Blocks that was in .22RF. Both of those are seen on occasion and easier to find than the one built on the 1 1/2 Sporting action.

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

There were several Cadet models. If yours is a .50-70 then it's likely it's one of those built on the same action as the Rolling Block pistols. They also made one on the #4 Rolling Blocks that was in .22RF. Both of those are seen on occasion and easier to find than the one built on the 1 1/2 Sporting action.

No. This has an action that is exactly the same as the No. 1
except it is 1.220" thick instead of the more typical 1.320".

Cheers!
Webb

[marlinman93]

Hi There,

There were several Cadet models. If yours is a .50-70 then it's likely it's one of those built on the same action as the Rolling Block pistols. They also made one on the #4 Rolling Blocks that was in .22RF. Both of those are seen on occasion and easier to find than the one built on the 1 1/2 Sporting action.

No. This has an action that is exactly the same as the No. 1
except it is 1.220" thick instead of the more typical 1.320".

Cheers!
Webb

That's an odd width. All of my #1 1/2 Sporting rifles have receivers around 1.14" thick. Yours seems to be thinner than the usual #1, but thicker than a 1 1/2 also?

I just got home from the auction house picking up my 1 1/2 Cadet rifle, and extremely pleased with it. The auction pictures made it look much worse than it is, and it's a wonderful little miniature military rifle.
As soon as I got to my car I grabbed a .45-70 cartridge I brought to check the chamber, and it's a perfect fit! I'll slug the bore later, and take some pictures of it to post here.

[marlinman93]

I also discovered a 1903 ad from M. Hartley & Co. in New York for surplus military stores and equipment. The ad states they are selling these No. 206 Cadet rifles in .45-70 for $9 and states the guns are 25-30 years old, which would date these to early 1870's when sold new. Notice the Trapdoor Springfield bayonets sold with it. The middle rifle in this ad.
Hartley owned Remington at this time, having bought the company from bankruptcy in 1887. The ad calls them the No. 206 and lists the cartridge as .45-70 Govt.

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

I don't own a 1-1/2 model to compare but as you mentioned,
the 1-1/2 model is supposed to be 1.14" thick. The closest
I have seen is in George Layman's Remington Rolling Block
Military Rifles of the World on pg. 173.

Are you saying the knife bayonet is the "Trapdoor Springfield
bayonets?" Either way, Remington supplied either style bayonet
(sword, knife or socket) on demand. I believe AMES supplied
all the knife and sword bayonets Remington used.

The Trapdoor socket bayonets are not the same as the ones used
for the Remingtons. The barrels have different outside diameters
and the front sight base is wider on the Remington rolling block.

Cheers!
Webb

[marlinman93]

Thanks for that info. I was going from pictures, and saw mention of socket type bayonets, so figured they looked like the Trapdoor. Guess I'll have to see if I can locate a socket style that's for a Remington.
Guys at our monthly collector show here always have bayonets on their tables, so I'll take my new acquisition along, and see what fits, if anything.

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

From appearance the Remington socket bayonet looks just
like any other socket bayonet from the same period. The
difference is the dimensions. The only visual telltale is
the size of the opening in the bridge of the bayonet. As
I said earlier, the base of the front sight on the Remington
Rolling Block is wider than the Springfield Trapdoor's.
IIRC, the Remington "export" socket bayonet came in two
lengths, OAL of 18" or 21-15/32" and two styles, triangular
or cruciform.

For those who don't know how the socket bayonet is locked
onto the barrel, the front sight is the anchor point the
locking of the bayonet. Because of the wider sight base on
the Remington, the opening has to be wider as well as the
zigzag channel cut into the bayonet for locking it.

Cheers!
Webb

[marlinman93]

Thanks.
I wonder if an old socket bayonet could be altered to fit a Remington like this Cadet by taking it apart, and doing modifications to the opening, and maybe sleeve the diameter ID.
We have a monthly collector gun show here and I see socket bayonets at almost every show, so if I can't find the exact one I might look at buying an inexpensive one that wont be a big loss if I modify it.

[marlinman93]

Took the Cadet down to it's basic pieces today and cleaned a lot of dried up oil out of it, but found it very clean inside. Once I got it sprayed out with brake clean, and then oiled it went together easier than it came apart.
Dug through my parts bins and found a sling loop that was a good copy for size and condition and bent it open to install, then squeezed it closed to get it back to shape.
Just a wipe down afterwards and it's done.

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Here is my "Civil Guard" model (it isn't exactly like the Civil Guard
model but it is close). As I mentioned earlier, the barrel is 31" and
the receiver is 1.22" wide. Caliber is 50-70.

Some of the pics of this rifle are beside a typical Spanish model (on
top) for comparison. Enjoy!

Cheers,
Webb

[marlinman93]

I think George Layman mentions those in his book, The Collector's Guide to Remington RB Military Rifles of the World. He refers to them as a "1 1/2 Action", but obviously they pre date the #1 1/2 and are round top actions just a bit narrower than the #1 actions.
I think they fall into their own classification as the "Civil Guard" and another model of interest.