1894/1900 History

[laramie]

Good morning, I have a recent purchase that I can use some help in determining its history.
The serial number is 339393 (no letter ahead of the number) it has 32" Damascus barrels and a LOP of 14 1/4". The condition of the wood and metal on the exterior apperas to be what I would call aged orgional free of rust or refinishing, small areas of color case hardening are still visable on the receiver, the bores are as new inside.
The water table and forend iron have matching serial numbers along with the number 9581 stamped on them. The bottom of the barrel lugs are stamped 36 over 56 (left side) and the letter F (right side)
I do not see the three digit number on the barrel lugs that might help me determine the pellet could, the barrels ahead of the water table flats are both marker D. /// KD. There are various numbers and letters on and around the lug that the forened attaches itself to that I can provide if helpful.
What I would like to know is the date this Remington was made and safe loadings for hunting (I use B&P shells in one hundred plus year old British side by sides due to their low pressures)
Thank you all for any help you can provide.

[Researcher]

Remington Model 1900s are a simplified, cheaper, version of the Model 1894, built on the same patents -- No. 528,507 and No. 528,508 both granted Oct. 30, 1894. The Model 1900s were all K-Grades, with E added to the designation if the gun had ejectors and D if it had Damascus barrels -- K-, KE-, KD-, or KED-Grades. The K- and KE-Grades had Remington Steel barrels. The Model 1900s had a snap-on/off forearm and their serial numbers were in the 300,000 range, often preceded with a stock letter Q.

Actually Remington Arms Company called them all "Remington Hammerless Double Barrel Shotguns" in the catalogues, and the only differentiation was the grade. The only place the terms "Model 1894" and "Model 1900" are found is in the parts lists.

If a Remington Model 1894 is fitted with automatic ejectors the the written grade designation has a letter E added to it and if it has Remington Steel barrels an R or Ordnance Steel Barrels an O -- AE-grade (A-grade with ejectors and the regular Damascus barrels), AER-grade (A-grade with ejectors and Remington Steel barrels), BO-grade (B-grade with Ordnance Steel barrels) or CEO-grade (C-grade with ejectors and Ordnance Steel barrels). I’ve never seen these extra letters stamped on the gun’s watertable. In the Model 1900s things are reversed. Remington must have considered their Remington Steel barrels standard and appended a D if the gun was equipped with 2-blade Damascus barrels -- KD-grade or KED-grade.

You need to check out Charles G. Semmer's book "Remington Double Shotguns." It is available from the author 7885 Cyd Drive, Denver, CO 80221, for $60 plus $5 shipping and handling. It is invaluable if you are going to shoot, invest, collect or play in the Remington double gun field. Remington supplied a number of different pattern Damascus barrels on these old doubles. A picture of their salesman’s sample of the various styles of Damascus available is shown on page 275 of Semmer's book. There is also a table of productions by serial number and year, but I'm a long way from my copy of the book.

Remington Arms Co. stamped the actual pellet counts of their test patterns on the rear barrel lug of their Model 1889 hammer doubles and their Model 1894 and 1900 hammerless doubles. If the number is three digits, that is the count, if the number is two digits a leading 3 is implied. From surviving hang-tags we know the standard load they used to target 12-gauge guns was 1 1/4 ounces of #8 going 511 pellets to the load. My 12-gauge KE-Grade Model 1900 is stamped 33 on the left and 24 on the right. That would be 333/511 = 65% left and 324/511 = 64% right, or about improved modified in both barrels. The chokes measure .027" in both barrels of that gun.

Both of my KE-Grades, a 12- and a 16-gauge, have a four digit number on the parts just like yours. I've heard it refered to as an "assembly number" but I don't think anyone really knows.

I don't think anyone has really decoded those letters and hashmarks down the barrel tube bottoms. I've posted this information before, but if someone with a lot of Remingtons, add these to what he has and what is in Charles' book, maybe a pattern will emerge.

1906 12-gauge KE-Grade has /// K E Y

1909 16-gauge KE-Grade has X K E A1

1896 12-gauge AE-Grade has P A

1906 12-gauge FE Trap has /// F E G 13

1894 12-gauge BE-Grade has B J and a poorly struck E or an F

1907 CEO-Grade 12-gauge has /// M

1905 DEO-Grade 16-gauge has X O

It is beginning to look like an X on the tube bottoms might have something to do with 16-gauge?!?

I don't think anyone can tell someone over the internet what shells may or may not be safe in any given gun. That can only be done by a competent doublegunsmith (few and far between) with the gun in hand.

[laramie]

Thank you very much for your time and reply, much of the information you provided me I had gleaned in my searching the questions and replys of the web site on grades, ejectors and the differance between a model 1984 and 1900.

The book you mention sounds like a must for me in doing my research and I will have to order one of these.

As to the safety of shotshells one can use in an older side by side is there no information available on the safe operating pressures these guns can handle (given that the gun has been checked over by a comfident gunsmith) in the Remington Society group?

Thank you again for your time, I am off to order one of the books you mention.

[brianich]

What about disassembly instructions/guides? Are there any readily available? Just bought a 16 ga 1900 (will check for the X when it comes back from the smith) and I'd like to be able to tinker with it myself.

I did a search on this forum and it turned up nothing.

[Researcher]

There were changes made in the Remington Hammerless Double Barrel Shotguns around 1906, including a repositioning of the sear axel and they introduced seperate firing pins. Here is a cut-away and a parts picture from a 1901 catalogue --





Here is the cut-away and parts picture from a 1908 catalogue --

[brianich]

Thanks for the info.

Another question: Has anybody figured out what the standard 16 gauge load was, for purposes of pellet count? If I assume a 1 oz load of #8 chilled shot, (409 pellets, according to the tables in Semmers' book) the numbers work out to 69% and 67% on my 16 ga, which seems consistent with how Rem choked their guns.

[Researcher]

One ounce was the heaviest factory available 16-gauge loads at the time Remington was making doubles. The 16-gauge 1 1/8 ounce Super-X or Nitro-Express loads did not appear until about 1923-24. As far as I know a 16-gauge hang-tag for a Remington double has yet to come to light.

[brianich]

Goto my 16 ga barrels back from the gunsmith, and they do have an X stamped on them, supporting the suggestion above that X may indicate 16 ga.

The smith also mic'ed my barrels and they are choked at .026" in both barrels, which I think bears out 1 oz load being used as the basis for the lug stampings.