Rem Model 11 Mfg Dates???

[Researcher]

There is an extrapolated serial number list in James Tipton's article on these guns that appeared in the 2nd Quarter 2000 issue of the RSA's magazine. The magazine is sold out. He actually improved the list for a later version of the article that was on the Remington Arms Co. web site, but unfortunately I didn't print off a copy. His list is the best we have for the early guns, but on the Remington Society's web site is the old factory ledger from between the wars. It gives by month, the highest serial number receiver put into production, but doesn't tell when the gun was actually finished or when it was actually shipped/sold.

175X Bottom -- 1905
743X Bottom -- 1905
7149X Bottom -- 1909
7521X Bottom -- 1909
10330X Bottom -- 1911
10660X Bottom -- 1911
15240X Bottom -- 1913
18593X Bottom -- 1915
19705X Bottom -- 1917 from James Tipton's list. He says 1917 goes to 204161. The factory ledger gives 199611 as the high number on Sept. 30, 1919?!?
28865X Side -- October 1924
33571X Side -- late June 1928
76033X Side -- After WW-II, probably 1947.

For the guns made after 1921, you can look for a two- or three-letter date code on the left side of the barrel, usually between the front edge of the receiver and the choke marking. Also probably an inspector's mark or two in that area.

Remington Arms Co. introduced their 12-gauge, five-shot, John M. Browning designed, "Remington Autoloading Gun" in 1905. The company name was changed to Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. in 1911. Shortly after that Rem-UMC began calling that gun the Model No. 11. In 1920 the company name changed again to Remington Arms Co., Inc. Circa 1927/8 they changed the safety from the lever inside the trigger guard to a crossbolt behind the trigger. In 1930, they introduced the 20-gauge Model 11. Model 11 20-gauge serial numbers began at 1,000,000. In 1931, they added the 16-gauge to the line with 16-gauge serial numbers starting at 1,500,000. In 1930, they also introduced a three-shot version in 20-gauge called "The Sportsman." The 20-gauge “The Sportsman” had serial numbers beginning low 1? Maybe 1000? They added 12- and 16-gauge "The Sportsman" in 1931, with 12-gauge "The Sportsman" having serial numbers starting at 500,000 and 16-gauges having serial numbers starting at 200,000. "The Sportsman" had a three-bird roll-stamping on each side of the receiver. In 1934 DuPont acquired controlling interest of Remington Arms Co., Inc. In 1937, Remington reduced the roll-stamping on "The Sportsman" to one bird on each side and started putting the roll-stamping on Model 11 receivers as well. At the same time, the name "The Sportsman" or "Model 11" began being stamped on the bolt. On Sep. 28, 1937, they stopped the separate serial number sequence in the 2xx,xxx range for the 16-gauge "The Sportsman"; on Aug. 24, 1937, they stopped the separate serial number sequence in the 5xx,xxx range for the 12-gauges and finally on Feb. 14, 1938, they ended the separate serial numbers for the 20-gauge “The Sportsman” at 16,753. From then on the "Model 11" and "The Sportsman" were serial numbered together, continuing the Model 11 sequences. Combined 12-gauge "Model 11" and "The Sportsman" serial numbers reached 499,999 on August 1, 1943. Serial numbers were then jumped to 700,000 and continued.

[Researcher]

Tipton suggests that they began at serial number 1000 in 1905. I'm pretty sure he did his list from shipping records, and shows 7,807 guns for the first year, then 14000 to 19000 each year through 1915, a slow down through WW-I and then over 20000 shipped in 1920. I'm primarily an Ansley H. Fox shotgun collector, shooter and researcher. Ansley introduced his Ansley H. Fox double in 1905, and for 1906 thru 1911, Remington shipped more Remington Autoloading Guns each year than Ansley produce in his seven years at the helm of A.H. Fox Gun Co.

I don't have much faith in the info on these old guns from Remington, as they are several corporate entities down the road from when these guns were made, and are far more interested in moving new product. I was much more confident in the days Dennis Sinneta (sp) was at the museum at the factory in Ilion.

I don't know anything about Model 11's use in WW-I, but there were lots of them in the 400000 and 700000 serial number range used in WW-II, mostly for aerial gunnery training.

[Fowlgunner]

K2Unit,

The first catalogue I have with the flat knob is the 1911-1912 edition.

I have seen photos of a 5xx s/n gun and have heard tell of someone having a gun in the 1xx range.

I have a photo copy of an Oct. 1952 Remington letter that states that s/n 15,2xx was produced in 1907.

No one will ever know for sure unless future record discoveries are made.

From the looks of things you've inherited more than just a nice collection of guns from your grandfather.

Good Luck in your search.

Are any of the collection, higher grade guns?

Will

[Fowlgunner]

K@unit,

Production information is available on this website under manufacturing dates and through the summary of the factory ledgers for all model 11's produced after Sept. 1919 by month.

These records should help you narrow down most of your collection.

Will

[tudurgs]

K - I would not spend the money to reblue the guns. They are not collectable, and any money spent will most likely not be reflected in increased value should you sell them. Keep them as your family passed them to you. There are a lot of memories in those shiney blue parts - I know, I still shoot my Dad's M31 pump, and my grandson is now starting with what is now his great-grandad's gun

[Fowlgunner]

Sorry,

It has been a while since I look at the Remington Letter.

It said s/n 15,2xx was produced in 1907 and shipped to Wright & Wilhelmy of Omaha Neb.

Will

[ForumAdmin]

Hi everyone
I have a Remington model 11 in 20ga and I could use some insight on its age. Ive done a bit of research and according to the barrel marks (ATT)it was made in March of 1948 but when I called Remington they gave me a different date. Based off the serial number on the receiver the nice lady at Remington told me the gun was made in 1973. When I gave her the barrel marking info she said that it was probably made in 1970 but could not explain the extra “T”. The info in Researcher’s post give me hope that my shotgun is all original and manufactured in ’48 and any insight will be greatly appreciated.
The barrel has marking indicating it is a modified choke and was manufactured in March of 1948. Underneath the barrel near the ring that goes around the magazine there are some additional markings including the last five digits in the s/n that are on the receiver. So, Remington Society, what say you?

I know little about model 11's but I do know they STOPPED making them in the late 40's...
I don't debate Researcher.

[Researcher]

I just acquired a 20 gauge model 11 ser# S 5082.

You don't have a Model 11, you have a "Sportsman", the three-shot version. Unfortunately the first page for 20-gauge the "Sportsman" serial numbers is missing from the old "between the Wars" Remington factory ledger. The second page that is there starts with March 1, 1937, at serial number S 14199 (actually it is 14??9) and ends February 14, 1938, at serial number S 16753. For 16-gauge "Sportsmen" production reached 5000 by October 1935, so I'd guess your October 1934 barrel date code on your gun is pretty close.

Remington Autoloader History

Remington Arms Co. introduced their 12-gauge, five-shot, John M. Browning designed, "Remington Autoloading Gun" in 1905.





The company name was changed to Remington Arms - Union Metallic Cartridge Co. in 1911. Shortly after that Rem-UMC began calling that gun the Model No. 11.



In 1920 the company name changed again to Remington Arms Co., Inc. Circa 1927/8 they changed the safety from the lever inside the trigger guard to a crossbolt behind the trigger. In 1930, they introduced the 20-gauge Model 11. Model 11 20-gauge serial numbers began at 1,000,000. In 1931, they added the 16-gauge to the line with 16-gauge serial numbers starting at 1,500,000. In 1930, they also introduced a three-shot version in 20-gauge called "The Sportsman."



The 20-gauge “The Sportsman” had serial numbers beginning low S1? Maybe S1000? They added 12- and 16-gauge "The Sportsman" in 1931, with 12-gauge "The Sportsman" having serial numbers starting at S500,000 and 16-gauges having serial numbers starting at S200,000. "The Sportsman" had a three-bird roll-stamping on each side of the receiver.



In 1934 DuPont acquired controlling interest of Remington Arms Co., Inc. In 1937, Remington reduced the roll-stamping on "The Sportsman" to one bird on each side and started putting the roll-stamping on Model 11 receivers as well. At the same time, the name "The Sportsman" or "Model 11" began being stamped on the bolt.



On Sep. 28, 1937, they stopped the separate serial number sequence in the 2xx,xxx range for the 16-gauge "The Sportsman"; on Aug. 24, 1937, they stopped the separate serial number sequence in the 5xx,xxx range for the 12-gauges and finally on Feb. 14, 1938, they ended the separate serial numbers for the 20-gauge “The Sportsman” at 16,753. From then on the "Model 11" and "The Sportsman" were serial numbered together, continuing the Model 11 sequences. Combined 12-gauge "Model 11" and "The Sportsman" serial numbers reached 499,999 on August 1, 1943. Serial numbers were then jumped to 700,000 and continued.

From what I see in the pawn shops in my area, there is not much demand for the standard grades of these old square-back Remington autoloaders. I see guys at gun shows asking four and five hundred dollars for them but around $200 is the average pawn shop price.

[Researcher]

I am a Remington man through and through and think this is a really neat gun to have

Right on!! I have every bit as much fun, maybe more, with my set of "The Sportsman" guns that I assembled for pocket change over $600 as I do with five figure guns --





My 16-gauge, "The Sportsman" with 26-inch, solid rib, improved cylinder, barrel is the only gun I've ever gotten a triple on Pheasants with --



In that I normally hunt with a side-by-side double, it is amazing that just the right situation presented itself on a day I was carrying "The Sportsman".