Dating 1858 Remington

[dieNusse1]

I'll have to pass you on to someone much more knowledgable. The leading 7 on the frame does not appear on the barrel so ???? I do believe the frame and barrel did leave the factory as one but I don't know if the difference in S/N is a common feature of The NMA.

Anyone out there with some information?

[Stewart1703]

Hi yes is a mystery, but the other S/N match up ie 7570 just the leading 7 in front, otherwise a match
And I believe no coincidence …

Hopefully someone will be able to clarify what’s happened here

[Stewart1703]

The frame and barrel is stamped with a W

[aardq]

Hi Stewart,

This gun is really a mystery. To start, what is the "ref 3734,} and where is it located? Next, what kind of front sight does it have, a cone or a "pinched" sight? I can't read the numbers in the photos, but it looks like the number on the frame has 5 digits. The final location is on the tab of the trigger guard. A New Model Army serial will have 5 or 6 digits. The single small letters on the gun are military, sub-inspector's marks. The cartouche on the left grip is the initials of the final inspector. Knowing the initials can give us a time range when the grip was stamped. The large W is an in house Remington inspector.

Serial 7570 was made in Dec of 1862 and would be an 1861 or Elliot Model. To me the first two digits look like 77. The new Model numbers started in the 17000-20,000 range, there is a transition period when Remington was using up parts on hand.

The barrel has new Model markings, so it may be that the full serial just wasn't put on the bbl. Just an error.

The gun is in amazing condition, considering when it might have been made all guns were sent to Army units or to Navy ships. The grips show more wear than the blueing would indicate. I suspect either the grips were replaced, or the gun was very professionally refinished, and the original grip put back on.

The case is either recently made, or an old case recently redone with new felt, and the box of cartridges is new made, not old.

That is a very nice pistol, no matter the story.

Daniel

[Stewart1703]

Hi Daniel,
The ref 3734 should be ignored, it was the dealer’s catalog number sorry for confusion
The sight is pinched see photo
The barrel S/N is clearly marked 7570
The frame is S/N is 7 7570 the 7 in front of 7570 is strange but no coincidence this is the same number on the barrel
I have attached a further picture of the mark on the grip hopefully this matches records and a date can be identified
I bought the gun with original finish as a very fine example, it was expensive…
I look forward to receiving your further comments

It’s a beautiful gun

Thank you for your help

Stewart

[Stewart1703]

Hi I think the first initial is either a R or a B and the second letter is possibly an L , hopefully someone who is familiar with such marks can identify

Btw the box and sundries are recent just to present and store the gun

Stewart

[Stewart1703]

I think I have solved the inspectors mark , I believe this to be B H, for Benjamin Hannis', US Civil war inspector's grip cartouch

Can anyone help me with a date?

[dieNusse1]

Did you have an opportunity to check the S/N on the trigger guard tab? You'll have to remove the trigger guard to locate the S/N.

[Stewart1703]

Hi not had opportunity to do remove the trigger guard , will have a go tomorrow

[Stewart1703]

Hi could not resist or delay, see attached photo
77570

[aardq]

Hi Stewart, and to all following this thread,

The serial on the tab, 77570 solves everything. the gun was made in June 1864.
Made at that late date it is very possible that where ever it was sent, it wasn't needed for immediate issue, and was put in general stores. What ever happened to it from there it wasn't used and remained in excellent condition.

In 1863 every gun made ended up being issued. By late 1864, the need for pistols had slowed and some were put in store. It is believed that
all NMAs made in 1865 were put in stores and never issued.

A side note, the NMA production stopped at the end of March, 1865, not 1870, or 1873, or 1875, or any other date that the "experts" and auctions say. In fact, Remington accepted unissued NMAs as partial trade for 1871 Army Rolling Block pistols. The NMAs were then converted to cartridge models.

The NMNs were made until 1870 or 1873 so there was a small demand for them, and the last 6000 or so were made as cartridge revolvers.

It isn't unusual for a digit or two to be missing from a serial number. It really screws up things with today's collectors, but back then it was nothing.

The reason that I asked about the sight is that the cones sights were used up, and no longer available by serial 50,000. The cartouche looks like BH, Benjamin Hannis,

A warning on the blue finish. The blue on Remington revolvers is notorious for flaking off. It happens on some guns, and not on others. I have seen an unfired NMA with half the blue missing from the frame, and 98% finish on the barrel. Obviously two different metals, and they reacted differently to the elements.

If you pistol is going to flake, you can't stop it. You can slow it by using a very light coat of gun oil NOT WD-40!, on the metal parts.

Enjoy your NMA, is is a great find,
Daniel

[Stewart1703]

Hi Daniel, thank you soo much for your comprehensive reply, it’s much appreciated and very interesting.

It’s good to know the date when the gun was made.

Is there anyway to research this further?

I understand that there maybe schedules / records which exist which are linked to Benjamin Hannis which contain serial numbers and where these revolvers were allocated…

Everyone seems surprised at it’s condition, do you think the gun is the original gun and the missing digit from the S/N on the barrel was one of those things at the time, it seems to much of a coincidence that the remaining digits match up ?

Again Thank you for your help

Stewart

[Stewart1703]

Hello everyone following this thread, I’m learning so much the comments made
I would like to have everyone’s opinion if you believe the gun is the original gun issued as one.

The only confusing thing is that there is missing leading digit from the S/N on the barrel otherwise all the S/N match on frame and on trigger guard are the same.
For me it seems too much of a coincidence that the remaining digits on the barrel match

I would like to hear all of your views on this

Have a great Thanks Giving Day

Stewart

[aardq]

Hi Stewart,

Records linked to Hannis would be for his duty stations, or assignments, but not to which arms he inspected by serial number.

Research is possible, but is usually very time, and money consuming. Springfield Research may be helpful so start there and see what they have.
https://archivalresearchgroup.com/sprin ... -archives/

It may be original, but if restored by a professional restorer it will be hard to tell. To be in it's current condition, I would guess that it was never issued, and remained in storage until disposed of to the civilian market. It could have remained unsold until after cartridge pistols were common, and always kept stored by its owners. But there is no way to know.

Good luck,
Daniel