11-48 loading problem
-
buckshot
11-48 loading problem
11-48 in 12 ga. Great shooter. BUT, lately I've noticed it's getting really hard to push shells past the carrier latch and into the tube. Seems like the rim of the shell really struggles to get past that latch. Have taken 100% apart and cleaned, even tried reassembly without the latch release button thinking maybe it was somehow preventing movement. No luck. After several assembly/teardowns, the carrier latch pin got stuck and would not come out for anything. Finally had to drill it out and ordered a new one. Anybody have experience with a problem like this or some clue as to why it's so hard to get shells in? I've tried factory new shells of several brands and they all exhibit the problem. I don't recall the gun doing this before and it gets shot every few weeks for informal skeet.
-
The Rifleman
Re: 11-48 loading problem
I think that you already answered your own question.
YOU took it apart, and YOU put it back together.
Something is not right here, mainly that either something was not assembled properly, or that something is out of alignment or is damaged.
YOU already admitted that YOU had to drill out the carrier latch pin.
When you first started having problems, that is when YOU should have taken it to an authorized Remington service center or a authorized gunsmith.
I can operate my own computer and I can even change memory boards and modems and stuff like that. But if I tried to rewire my own computer - with some 16 ga wire, chances are - it would never work again.
Why would I believe that it would be any different with a firearm.
Gunsmiths goes to school for a year or more before they go out into the real world and work on their own. Even after they get the fundamentals - they still need help and advice from time to time to get through a difficcult situation. As in factory advice and technical help.
It never hurts to ask for help.
Now your best option is to take it to a gunsmith and have it repaired.
YOU took it apart, and YOU put it back together.
Something is not right here, mainly that either something was not assembled properly, or that something is out of alignment or is damaged.
YOU already admitted that YOU had to drill out the carrier latch pin.
When you first started having problems, that is when YOU should have taken it to an authorized Remington service center or a authorized gunsmith.
I can operate my own computer and I can even change memory boards and modems and stuff like that. But if I tried to rewire my own computer - with some 16 ga wire, chances are - it would never work again.
Why would I believe that it would be any different with a firearm.
Gunsmiths goes to school for a year or more before they go out into the real world and work on their own. Even after they get the fundamentals - they still need help and advice from time to time to get through a difficcult situation. As in factory advice and technical help.
It never hurts to ask for help.
Now your best option is to take it to a gunsmith and have it repaired.
-
buckshot
Re: 11-48 loading problem
Rifleman,
Thanks for your incredibly self-righteous and incomparably unhelpful reply. It was exactly this type of scolding that I was hoping for when I reached out for help.
As for your suggestions, it occurs to me that over 5 years of college course work to become a degreed and licensed mechanical engineer, 17 years practical work experience in design and maintenance of complex and expensive machinery, a lifetime of firearms experience and several years familiarity with this particlular arm would qualify me to disassmble and clean my own gun. At the least, my experience and education are the equal of the 1 year you suggest a gunsmith studies. If you were familiar with this particular design, you would know that the latch pin is a blind dowel with questionable provisions for removal. After a certain number of assembly/teardown cycles, problems with removal are just about guaranteed.
As for the factory training afforded to Remington service centers, I have struggled to find evidence that Old Green is training techs on the workings of a 60 year old shotgun. They certainly are not supporting it with parts or manuals.
So, forgive my hubris for taking apart my own weapon when it malfunctions instead of using a member of your favorite guild. Forgive me a second time for exercising the caution to consult with readers of this board before I began to modify or replace parts that have no obvious defect. Now that I've begged mercy for going outside your 'union' of factory trained gunsmiths, perhaps one of these experienced people will suggest what I might look for as a possible root cause. Certainly all of them will know immediately what is wrong, as none of them would ever have to resort to asking a question here. Of course, I can't blame them, knowing that asking questions here does not get answers, just verbal slaps from crotchety wannabe gunsmiths like you.
- Buckshot
Thanks for your incredibly self-righteous and incomparably unhelpful reply. It was exactly this type of scolding that I was hoping for when I reached out for help.
As for your suggestions, it occurs to me that over 5 years of college course work to become a degreed and licensed mechanical engineer, 17 years practical work experience in design and maintenance of complex and expensive machinery, a lifetime of firearms experience and several years familiarity with this particlular arm would qualify me to disassmble and clean my own gun. At the least, my experience and education are the equal of the 1 year you suggest a gunsmith studies. If you were familiar with this particular design, you would know that the latch pin is a blind dowel with questionable provisions for removal. After a certain number of assembly/teardown cycles, problems with removal are just about guaranteed.
As for the factory training afforded to Remington service centers, I have struggled to find evidence that Old Green is training techs on the workings of a 60 year old shotgun. They certainly are not supporting it with parts or manuals.
So, forgive my hubris for taking apart my own weapon when it malfunctions instead of using a member of your favorite guild. Forgive me a second time for exercising the caution to consult with readers of this board before I began to modify or replace parts that have no obvious defect. Now that I've begged mercy for going outside your 'union' of factory trained gunsmiths, perhaps one of these experienced people will suggest what I might look for as a possible root cause. Certainly all of them will know immediately what is wrong, as none of them would ever have to resort to asking a question here. Of course, I can't blame them, knowing that asking questions here does not get answers, just verbal slaps from crotchety wannabe gunsmiths like you.
- Buckshot
-
remington600
- Posts: 701
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:27 pm
- Location: High Ridge Missouri
Re: 11-48 loading problem
I don't know much about shotguns, but I am on your side for the follow up reply (buckshot). If your here just to give slams and blows please don't reply. You know its a habit for you . As for the shotgun. I would never agree to drilling on them myself, but if your comfortable with it. I would just recommend old faithful and take it to a highly recommended gunsmith. Like I said I am not into shotguns, but it is always great to see new topics on the forum. Degrading remarks and comments only push away future questions and make us look bad.
-
The Rifleman
Re: 11-48 loading problem
Nothing that I said was degrading - it was just the truth.
As for the want to be gunsmith, I was employed as a machinist for many years, and I can cite you several times where I had know it all engineer's that thought that they knew it all - only you cannot add one and one and get three.
The Pennsylvania Gunsmith School - does teach you how to work on obsolete guns, since the goal of a gunsmith is not only to service and maintain new firearms - but also to repair old obsolete firearms.
I had a Sportsman 48 for years in 16 GA and cleaned it many times, too many in fact - until one day, I put it back together wrong and ruined the bearing surface inside of the guide.
I made a new bearing from a piece of Babbitt out of a small block Chevrolet engine and it worked good as new.
That's something that Remington never taught to their gunsmiths - but should have been available - 50 + years after the gun was manufactured.
Coming from a family of engineers, "educated dummies" as my grandfather would call them. I can tell you that when a person devotes his time and energies to gunsmithing, then it isn't something that should be looked down upon - by someone that thinks that they have some sort of superior intelligence - just because they went to college.
I went to IUP - Indiana University of Pennsylvania for two years - for Safety Science - Mine Safety Tract. One of the only University's in the country to offer that subject. Only when the govt., that knows it all, said that we were mining our coal too fast. They shut down most all of the deep mines in my area; my education was no longer of use.
Today with house coal at $90 a ton and the power plants paying upwards of $120 a ton, the mines are now re opening and there is a severe shortage of qualified mine engineers.
For someone to spend $20,000 of 1988 money, to finish an education that they could not use for 20 years, would be like buying a new car and then not being allowed to drive it.
All I offered was my opinion; you could take it or leave it.
You didn't have to attack it.
As for the want to be gunsmith, I was employed as a machinist for many years, and I can cite you several times where I had know it all engineer's that thought that they knew it all - only you cannot add one and one and get three.
The Pennsylvania Gunsmith School - does teach you how to work on obsolete guns, since the goal of a gunsmith is not only to service and maintain new firearms - but also to repair old obsolete firearms.
I had a Sportsman 48 for years in 16 GA and cleaned it many times, too many in fact - until one day, I put it back together wrong and ruined the bearing surface inside of the guide.
I made a new bearing from a piece of Babbitt out of a small block Chevrolet engine and it worked good as new.
That's something that Remington never taught to their gunsmiths - but should have been available - 50 + years after the gun was manufactured.
Coming from a family of engineers, "educated dummies" as my grandfather would call them. I can tell you that when a person devotes his time and energies to gunsmithing, then it isn't something that should be looked down upon - by someone that thinks that they have some sort of superior intelligence - just because they went to college.
I went to IUP - Indiana University of Pennsylvania for two years - for Safety Science - Mine Safety Tract. One of the only University's in the country to offer that subject. Only when the govt., that knows it all, said that we were mining our coal too fast. They shut down most all of the deep mines in my area; my education was no longer of use.
Today with house coal at $90 a ton and the power plants paying upwards of $120 a ton, the mines are now re opening and there is a severe shortage of qualified mine engineers.
For someone to spend $20,000 of 1988 money, to finish an education that they could not use for 20 years, would be like buying a new car and then not being allowed to drive it.
All I offered was my opinion; you could take it or leave it.
You didn't have to attack it.
Last edited by The Rifleman on Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
The Rifleman
Re: 11-48 loading problem
For fast repairs,
Call Grice Gun Shop
Grice Gun Shop, Inc.
216 Reed Street
P.O. Box 1028
Clearfield, PA 16830
814-765-9273
An authorized Remington Service Center.
Call Grice Gun Shop
Grice Gun Shop, Inc.
216 Reed Street
P.O. Box 1028
Clearfield, PA 16830
814-765-9273
An authorized Remington Service Center.
Re: 11-48 loading problem
Let's put our egos back on the shelf, shall we?
One experienced, degreed, and licensed mechanical engineer to another; if you can't figure out what's wrong, and you're the one with it right in front of you, you are highly unlikely to find anyone else on an internet board who is going to be able to do much for you. Start from scratch. How is it supposed to work, and exactly what isn't working right? I am no 11-48 guru, but I would say something is interfering with the carrier in reaching the uppermost position. You don't have a feed latch partially out of the groove/staking by any chance do you? Take the trigger group out and try it there. A worn carrier dog spring or plunger binding in the hole? A bent disconnector? A bent interceptor? The carrier dog washer not aligned with the pin? I am not saying what's wrong, just suggesting some things to look at.
Always, when troubleshooting, start with the basics. I have been troubleshooting some extremely complex industrial systems for 35 years, and the fastest way to not solve something is to jump to conclusions or jump ahead of the process on a hunch.
Why are you taking the carrier latch pin out? Before the malfunction I mean. I have five 1100s and an 870, and I can only recall doing that about twice total since 1963.
One experienced, degreed, and licensed mechanical engineer to another; if you can't figure out what's wrong, and you're the one with it right in front of you, you are highly unlikely to find anyone else on an internet board who is going to be able to do much for you. Start from scratch. How is it supposed to work, and exactly what isn't working right? I am no 11-48 guru, but I would say something is interfering with the carrier in reaching the uppermost position. You don't have a feed latch partially out of the groove/staking by any chance do you? Take the trigger group out and try it there. A worn carrier dog spring or plunger binding in the hole? A bent disconnector? A bent interceptor? The carrier dog washer not aligned with the pin? I am not saying what's wrong, just suggesting some things to look at.
Always, when troubleshooting, start with the basics. I have been troubleshooting some extremely complex industrial systems for 35 years, and the fastest way to not solve something is to jump to conclusions or jump ahead of the process on a hunch.
Why are you taking the carrier latch pin out? Before the malfunction I mean. I have five 1100s and an 870, and I can only recall doing that about twice total since 1963.
What could have happened... did.