Australian 1858 NMA

[14blw]

Hi All ,
Here in Australia I have recently become the owner of a 1858 NMA ( serial 94043 ) converted to rim fire 5 shot , suspect possibly a Remington conversion.
The serial numbers match on the barrel, trigger guard and on the frame under the grips. However there additional numbers stamped near the retaining clip for the loading lever and under the barrel towards the frame also on the trigger guard and under the grips .
I will attach more photos in a separate post ( 10 is maximum) .
Any information on this 1858 would be greatly appreciated .
Cheers
Brian

[14blw]

More photos attached, one question I guess will never be known ,, how did it get to Australia .

[aardq]

Hello 14blw,


Nice close up shots, but you also need views of the pistol overall, and of the cylinder in the frame.

Your New Model Army revolver was made on Gov contract in August, 1864. The number 118 is a conversion number.

Is it a rim fire, or a center fire? Is the cylinder a two piece with a backing plate, or are the chambers bored through, without a backing plate, or a loading gate?

It sounds like a factoty conversion for arms dealer, Benjamin Kiterdge, in Cincinnati, OH., in 1868, one of about 4300 made for Kitterdge ad a 5-shot, 46 rimfire. These were the very first conversions by anyone. It was a 3-way deal. Rem did the work, and paid S&W a patent fee, and Kitterdge paid Remington. This applies only if the cylinder is a .46 rimfire.

Daniel

[14blw]

Hi Daniel ,
Thank you so much for your reply .
It’s 5 shot bored through cylinder , advertised as 44 rimfire but I’m not really sure .
The cylinder is one piece with no markings that I can see and there is a backing plate attached to the frame maybe 3 millimetres thick (1/8 “) , and no loading gate .
More photos attached.
Would there be dimensions for the cylinder somewhere that I could use to establish what calibre it was converted to ?
Thanks again .
Regards
Brian

[dieNusse1]

Interesting. I have a conversion also. It's 6 shot 45LC. Center fire of course.

It has the addition to the recoil shield similar to yours but that's where the similarity ends. Other than milling the groves mounting the recoil shield addition and the mounting screw there is no further milling to the frame.

The cylinder has to be removed in order to load/reload. The cylinder appears to be made up of the old cylinder with the end cut off and replaced with new steel.

[14blw]

Does anyone know what this means on the trigger guard tab , the other side has the serial number ?
It appears to be 1CO ,,, first company maybe ?

[billt]

Hello Brian,
You have a Remington New Model Army Type 3 conversion which was most likely converted from six shot 44 percussion to 5 shot 46 caliber rimfire sometime after 1870. There are three Remington factory 46 caliber rimfire conversion types. The one Daniel talks about is a Type 1 conversion. The Type 1 conversion does not have an ejector because Benjamin Kittredge wanted to minimize cost. It has the Rollin White patent date stamped on the side of the cylinder. There were 4574 Type 1 conversions made between September of 1868 and May of 1869 of which Kittredge received 4141. The balance went to J.W. Storrs, M. W Robinson, Wexell and DeGress and 1 retained by Smith & Wesson.
The type 2 and 3 were made sometime after the Rollin White patent expired in April of 1869. They both had an ejector mounted on the right side of the revolver. The difference between a Type 1 and Type 2 is lack of the ejector on the Type 1 and the lack of the patent date on the Type 2 cylinder. The difference between a Type 2 and Type 3 is the addition of a ramp to the cylinder lock bolt stop slots on the Type 3 conversion cylinder.
There were an unknown number of Type 3 conversions made, however there were approximately 400 purchased by the Citizens Association of Chicago in the 1870’s. They were marked on the right frame in front of the cylinder with C.A. followed by a one-, two-, or three -digit number.
As far as the 1CO on the trigger guard tab goes, I doubt it is a company number or else it would probably be visible from the outside of the revolver. I have one of the C.A. marked revolvers with a similar number on the back of the trigger guard tab as yours. It only has the CO.
If you are interested in Remington Army conversions you should get a copy of “Remington Large-Bore Conversion Revolvers” by Roger Phillips. Unfortunately there were only 250 books printed and they are pricy.

Bill