I have a Remington n° 2 Smoot revolver, serial 826, that the deal assured me as being factory engraved. According to the book "A Study of Remington's Smoot Patent & Number Four Revolvers" by Harry J. Parker, Ora Lee Parker and Joan S. Reish, there was only one piece factory engraved and with ivory grips produced between serials 800 and 1000, and only 3 for the total of .32 caliber Smoots produced.
I must say that the cylinder is not the original one. I have it (lightly engraved), but the ratchet has been re-cut for an unknown reason and it won't cycle anymore.
Could it be mine ?
Remington Smoot n° 2
Remington Smoot n° 2
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Re: Remington Smoot n° 2
Hi Patbar,
If you have the book, then on page 56 is a photo of an engraved No. 2 with ivory grips, and gold washed. The serial is 977. If only one was produced in the 800-1000 range, then this must be the one.
The grips appear thick at the edges, and originals usually taper a little at the edges. Have you checked that the grips are ivory and not resin? It's too bad that the cylinder was replaced, maybe the original cylinder was lost.
Do all three serial numbers match? If not it may be a parts gun.
Daniel
If you have the book, then on page 56 is a photo of an engraved No. 2 with ivory grips, and gold washed. The serial is 977. If only one was produced in the 800-1000 range, then this must be the one.
The grips appear thick at the edges, and originals usually taper a little at the edges. Have you checked that the grips are ivory and not resin? It's too bad that the cylinder was replaced, maybe the original cylinder was lost.
Do all three serial numbers match? If not it may be a parts gun.
Daniel
Re: Remington Smoot n° 2
Hi Daniel,
As I wrote, I have the original cylinder, which ratchet has been re-cut, which has shortened it a bit, and it will not cycle anymore, reason for it not being mounted on my gun.
Beside, the gun on page 56 of the book that I have has mother of pearl grips and on page 63, it says that 9 guns like this one were produced. The grips of mine are definitely made of ivory, but perhaps not elephant ivory. It is known that Remington was not very clear regarding grips materials. Even false ivory made of celluloid was at a time advertised as "ivory" on their catalogs with the according price until customers complained and asked fort real ivory.
I have the two 826 serials on the butt of the grips where they are supposed to be.
As I wrote, I have the original cylinder, which ratchet has been re-cut, which has shortened it a bit, and it will not cycle anymore, reason for it not being mounted on my gun.
Beside, the gun on page 56 of the book that I have has mother of pearl grips and on page 63, it says that 9 guns like this one were produced. The grips of mine are definitely made of ivory, but perhaps not elephant ivory. It is known that Remington was not very clear regarding grips materials. Even false ivory made of celluloid was at a time advertised as "ivory" on their catalogs with the according price until customers complained and asked fort real ivory.
I have the two 826 serials on the butt of the grips where they are supposed to be.
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Re: Remington Smoot n° 2
Hi patbar,
Now that I have wiped the egg off of my face, you're right, and I made a bad mistake. On page 56, I looked at at the photo without reading the caption. It does say MOP, not ivory.
You're also right that often Remington advertising just said "ivory," and didn't mention that the grips might be resin, not real ivory. It is easy to tell just by removing the grips. The resin grips have a metal play on the back, while real ivory doesn't have the plate. I have no idea what material it could be if it isn't elephant ivory. Have you done the "hot pin" test? Remove a grip, heat a pin with a candle or lighter, and push it against the inside of the grip. If it is ivory the pin won't penetrate at all. If the pin starts to go into into the material, it's not ivory.
Parker estimates that 2,127 were made and he has a sample base of 263, so there are a lot of Smoots out there that aren't in his base, so it's possible that there could be more engraved and ivory gripped No 2 Smoots still out there. But, until they show up, you have he only one.
Enjoy it.
Daniel
Now that I have wiped the egg off of my face, you're right, and I made a bad mistake. On page 56, I looked at at the photo without reading the caption. It does say MOP, not ivory.
You're also right that often Remington advertising just said "ivory," and didn't mention that the grips might be resin, not real ivory. It is easy to tell just by removing the grips. The resin grips have a metal play on the back, while real ivory doesn't have the plate. I have no idea what material it could be if it isn't elephant ivory. Have you done the "hot pin" test? Remove a grip, heat a pin with a candle or lighter, and push it against the inside of the grip. If it is ivory the pin won't penetrate at all. If the pin starts to go into into the material, it's not ivory.
Parker estimates that 2,127 were made and he has a sample base of 263, so there are a lot of Smoots out there that aren't in his base, so it's possible that there could be more engraved and ivory gripped No 2 Smoots still out there. But, until they show up, you have he only one.
Enjoy it.
Daniel
Re: Remington Smoot n° 2
Hi Daniel,
Yes, I did the hot pin test and it won't penetrate the material of the grips at all. Yet, it doesn't look like elephant ivory so, I am really unable to say from which animal it can come from.
All I can say is that these grips are perfectly adjusted to the gun and that the escutcheons used are typical of those used on Remington guns.
Beside, I must also say that I consider that the Smoot n° 1 and 2 don't get the interest they deserve, because I am pretty sure that no other hand gun in the world have had the barrel and frame machined in a single piece of steel !
Here are photos of each side of the grips :
Yes, I did the hot pin test and it won't penetrate the material of the grips at all. Yet, it doesn't look like elephant ivory so, I am really unable to say from which animal it can come from.
All I can say is that these grips are perfectly adjusted to the gun and that the escutcheons used are typical of those used on Remington guns.
Beside, I must also say that I consider that the Smoot n° 1 and 2 don't get the interest they deserve, because I am pretty sure that no other hand gun in the world have had the barrel and frame machined in a single piece of steel !
Here are photos of each side of the grips :
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Re: Remington Smoot n° 2
Hi Patbar,
You did the hot pin test, so it is some kind of ivory, and I am very far from knowing anything about real ivory, so like you, I'm at a loss at to what the grips may be made of. The inside looks like it might be larger grained than most ivory that I've seen. It looks like wood, and that should be a clue, but to someone other than me.
You are right about the lack of interest, and respect for the Smoots, but 1) they aren't Colts, and 2) they weren't made in numbers even close to other makes, so that means less interest. They are fine pistols and unappreciated by collectors.
Take care,
Daniel
You did the hot pin test, so it is some kind of ivory, and I am very far from knowing anything about real ivory, so like you, I'm at a loss at to what the grips may be made of. The inside looks like it might be larger grained than most ivory that I've seen. It looks like wood, and that should be a clue, but to someone other than me.
You are right about the lack of interest, and respect for the Smoots, but 1) they aren't Colts, and 2) they weren't made in numbers even close to other makes, so that means less interest. They are fine pistols and unappreciated by collectors.
Take care,
Daniel
Re: Remington Smoot n° 2
Daniel, the back of these grips can't in any case be wood because I tried to scratch them with a screwdriver and the material is so hard that it didn't leave any trace. Also, the sides show that the grips are made of only one solid material.
Aside animal (what kind ?) ivory, I don't imagine which other material would have these age lines on the outside. I am really at a loss !
Aside animal (what kind ?) ivory, I don't imagine which other material would have these age lines on the outside. I am really at a loss !
Last edited by Patbar on Sun Dec 22, 2024 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Remington Smoot n° 2
Hopefully, someone that knows about animal ivory will jump in and educate us on what animal those might have come from.
Re: Remington Smoot n° 2
Some members of a French forum suggested that it might be aged bone. So, I heated a nail, applied it to to the underside of one grip and got the characteristic smell of burned bone.
So it seems that my grips are not the original ones. Among the 33 factory engraved Smoots having their serial between 800 and 1000 (mine being 826), 1 had walnut grips, 9 pearl grips, 2 celluloid fake ivory grips 1 real ivory grips and 20 gutta-percha grips. So perhaps the previous owner of my gun had this last type of grips and didn't like them ?
So it seems that my grips are not the original ones. Among the 33 factory engraved Smoots having their serial between 800 and 1000 (mine being 826), 1 had walnut grips, 9 pearl grips, 2 celluloid fake ivory grips 1 real ivory grips and 20 gutta-percha grips. So perhaps the previous owner of my gun had this last type of grips and didn't like them ?