Model 14 Accuracy & Other marksmanship related crap!

[nambujim]

OK! I'm an old guy that loves and appreciates older rifles/hand guns. I grew up in a time when Junior Rifle Clubs were abundant, you actually took your rifle to school if you shot on the rifle team, and could take it on a plane with you. I always thought the latter was entertaining since it would be a chore to hi-jack a plane with a 20# single shot .22 Anschutz target rifle.

I was about 18-19 when the police department where my dad served as a Lieutenant decided to sell off their ancient old arms which included four (4) 1921 top slide Thompson sub-machine guns in blue velvet lined leather cases. The Thompson's were put on hold because of license problems but I was able to purchase two Model 14 Remington's & a Model 8 police all in .30 Remington. It was at this point in my life I strayed from being a target shooter to a true lover of "blue steel & wood".

In the years following I picked up additional Model 14's, messed with taking them apart but those two (2) from the Evanston Police Department were in need of some attention so in 1959 I was forced into giving them some basic attention but lo and behold parts were still available. It was then and there I found out that in the case of the Model 14 "all parts from Remington were NOT created equal".

With that history behind us lets get up to recent history and accuracy of these rifles. Together with a gun writer friend (the late Charlie Petty) he borrowed a bunch of my rifles in all calibers , wrote articles for several magazines, and it sort of fell on me s to do some group testing with assorted loads.

The very best results came from old loading data for factory equivalent loads for all four (4) calibers using IMR powders, 117gr RN for the .25, 150gr RN for the .30, 170 gr RN for the .32, and 200gr RN for the .35.............all Hornady because Charlie had an "in" and got the bullets either gratis or at cost.

We shot five (5) targets with each caliber, five (5) rounds per target from a benched rifle at 100 yards using a basic rest for the rifle. All four rifles were equipped with a Redfield 102 Tang Sight (great sight/hard to find now) and I chose to use vintage Lyman 17AMI front sights with an aperture insert (my target shooting background led me in that direction), the combination provided super-good sight picture.

The .30, .32, & .35 were all pretty minty 95% rifles but the .25 had a dark bore, light pitting but still had strong rifling.

We set OACL using the latest factory production ammunition we could come up with, most from the early 70's. All the brass was new R-P brass purchased from Buffalo arms which at the time was readily available and "they" sized up to .32 and down to .25 using new .30 Remington brass. New .35 Remington brass was readily available.
We used CCI primers, IMR Powder, Hornady bullets as described above, and used a factory crimp die on ALL loadings. Tom Hemphill is the one that turned me on to using the factory crimp die noting that when fed into and through the magazine the bullets had a tendency to ease back into the case.

I'll try to make the summary as short as possible. Here is the average of the groups:
,25 1.264"
.30 1.113"
.32 1.249" with .321 bullets
1.114" with .323 bullets
.35 1.161"

The .30 had three of the five groups 1" or under or MOA. In my opinion you cannot shoot these type of groups with factory open iron sights but I would think with a 4X scope you should easily be able to shoot similar groups. Keep in mind we had truly an expert doing the loading and an accomplished marksman firing the rifle.

My take on all this is that you can take all latest in 21st century technology, calibers, synthetic stocks, $1500 Bushnell or Leupold scopes, tripods/bipods, and whatever but you won't do much better. The "key" for accuracy/function with the Model 14 is the loading of the ammunition.

One footnote here is that we made up all sorts of other loadings/bullets with horrible results. My very favorite awful load was in the .35 Remington where we loaded some 158gr RN hard cast lead bullets, at 100 yards the groups sort of looked like you fired a load of buckshot. While the 158's were awful at 100 yards the were far better at 50.

For info!

Jim Peterson
Charlotte, NC

[Moosesgunsmithing]

Speaking of unavailable, are there any sources for 141 action bar covers? I had one show up in my shop and getting the dimensions and screw hole location right is evading me as I try to make a new one.

[Gamemaster32]

Very interesting sir.

I’ve been feeding .35 Remingtons (Model 141s) factory 200 gr. loads for years until recently (finally) getting around to reloading some of those prized empty cases I’ve accumulated.

To make a long story short, I’ve significant experience in handloading virtually anything metallic, however had never loaded a single round of .35 Rem for a rifle. Yes to .30 Rem & .32 Rem in rifles; & yes to .35 Rem in a Contender pistol with .357 pistol bullets.

Anyway, even though not necessary for a slide-action hunting rifle, my initial handloading attempt was with carefully prepped cases a benchrest shooter would approve of, a modest charge of IMR 3031, and topped off with a beautiful Sierra 200 gr. RN projectile seated approximately centered within the crimping cannelure and not exceeding the published 2.525” max c.o.a.l. I even replicated the seating depth to a factory Remington 200 gr. soft point measured base-to-tip. And topping it all off with a Lee Factory Crimp Die was a “no brainer.”

To make a short story shorter, some of the rounds did what they were supposed to: loaded, fed, fired, extracted, ejected (cycled) perfectly. However the rifle failed to fire several times and felt as though it wasn’t cocked, or the safety was engaged. And it was extremely difficult to open the action in order to extract/re-cock/investigate. I initially thought I had somehow ruined my cherished 141 I had never had a problem with!

After much head-scratching I finally recognized the land marks on the bullet’s ogive and arrived at the conclusion the o.a.l. was too much, and that the action was not fully going into battery (locking up).

Measuring from base-to-tip (while attempting to stay within the crimping groove) just doesn’t cut it when loading bullets other than Remington’s in this particular rifle. A Hornady gauge (measuring from the ogive) confirmed that like some Marlin lever guns, this 141 has a very short throat/freebore/leade. It’s readily apparent Remington’s bullets are configured very differently when measured from the ogive.

The ultimate remedy was to seat the bullet to the extreme forward aspect of the crimping groove…just barely within. That provided .015” clearance off the lands which allows the old girl to "close" and run the way she’s supposed to.
"
I learn something all the time. Haven’t had that issue loading 141s in .30 or .32 caliber.

I did get some promising results firing those loads across a chronograph.

Since Core-Lokt bullets are (literally?) unobtanium as components, I can’t wait to try Hornady bullets next!

I always look forward to your informative postings. Thanks for sharing your experiences and vast knowledge Jim!

[nambujim]

I have 141 action bar covers for sale regularly on Gunbroker. If you want one through here the price is $150 + $10 shipping in a small priority mail box.

In over 50 years of working on these rifles, at least once a year someone attempts to re-create an action bar cover, so far no one has made one that works. Problem is they need to be flexible ruling out milling one. I guess nothing is impossible buy past history tells me you have a difficult, near impossible task ahead of you but good luck.

If you want to buy one from me the price is shown above, I ship the day funds arrive.
All mine are good, solid, usable covers.

Jim Peterson
Charlotte, NC

[Moosesgunsmithing]

I have 141 action bar covers for sale regularly on Gunbroker. If you want one through here the price is $150 + $10 shipping in a small priority mail box.

In over 50 years of working on these rifles, at least once a year someone attempts to re-create an action bar cover, so far no one has made one that works. Problem is they need to be flexible ruling out milling one. I guess nothing is impossible buy past history tells me you have a difficult, near impossible task ahead of you but good luck.

If you want to buy one from me the price is shown above, I ship the day funds arrive.
All mine are good, solid, usable covers.

Jim Peterson
Charlotte, NC

I just tried to shoot you a private message but dont have permissions yet. Would you mind shooting me a message now? Id really like to acquire a cover ASAP so I can at least set my customer on his way.


I have made forming dies and have been using annealed spring steel. Without a useable part I have been doing some educated guessing as to correct geometry and sizing. It isn't too terribly hard to make the cover portion but the tab for retention has been an issue. I hope to be able to produce these in small quantities in the next 18 months or so.