Have a NMA (S/N 86326) converted to 45 LC. Problem is that the rims overlap when loading which means I can only load 3 rounds. As shown in the pic slots were milled on the blast shield and a plate was installed. No other milling on frame as no loading gate was installed. The barrel, hammer, frame and steel plate are all stamped 33.
Cylinder seams to have had the rear milled off and new end for conversion pressed on.
Any comments as to who did the conversion and any means to correct loading issue?
1858 NMA Conversion
1858 NMA Conversion
- Attachments
-
- IMG_1300.jpg (1.69 MiB) Viewed 6392 times
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
DO NOT SHOOT THIS GUN!!
The cylinder walls are very, very thin, and the metal is 160 years old, and there is no way to know how much strength those thin chamber walls have.
This pistol was made in October of 1864. Are there any inspector's initials on any of the major parts of the gun? If so, it is US surplus, and may have been among the 15,000 to 20,000 NMAs sent to France in 1870-71.
It appears that this may have been done by someone who was more of a machinist than a gunsmith. I say that because a real gunsmith wouldn't have bored the chambers that large, or that off center, and weakened the chamber walls. It is not a factory conversion.
The gun could have been converted at any time in the past 160 years, and there is no way to tell when, where, or by who. There is no way to fix the problem of only holding 3 rounds. In a world of mostly percussion revolvers, being able to shoot 3x and reload quickly could have been more important than having 6 percussion shots with a slow reload.
That is a very interesting conversion, and it raises more questions than it answers. It also leaves wide open the reason(s) for the conversion, and the story behind it. Enjoy it for what it is, and leave the shooting to a different revolver.
Daniel
The cylinder walls are very, very thin, and the metal is 160 years old, and there is no way to know how much strength those thin chamber walls have.
This pistol was made in October of 1864. Are there any inspector's initials on any of the major parts of the gun? If so, it is US surplus, and may have been among the 15,000 to 20,000 NMAs sent to France in 1870-71.
It appears that this may have been done by someone who was more of a machinist than a gunsmith. I say that because a real gunsmith wouldn't have bored the chambers that large, or that off center, and weakened the chamber walls. It is not a factory conversion.
The gun could have been converted at any time in the past 160 years, and there is no way to tell when, where, or by who. There is no way to fix the problem of only holding 3 rounds. In a world of mostly percussion revolvers, being able to shoot 3x and reload quickly could have been more important than having 6 percussion shots with a slow reload.
That is a very interesting conversion, and it raises more questions than it answers. It also leaves wide open the reason(s) for the conversion, and the story behind it. Enjoy it for what it is, and leave the shooting to a different revolver.
Daniel
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
I agree - not safe.
Compared to my other '58 (S/N 63328) it does appear to have similar sub inspector stamps but no cartouche on grip. S/N on trigger guard does not match frame. However, from what I've read, a mismatched S/N usually indicates military issue.
63328 does have a grip cartouche and matching S/N on trigger guard.
Thinking of converting back to percussion unless I can find a safe cylinder. Ideas?
Compared to my other '58 (S/N 63328) it does appear to have similar sub inspector stamps but no cartouche on grip. S/N on trigger guard does not match frame. However, from what I've read, a mismatched S/N usually indicates military issue.
63328 does have a grip cartouche and matching S/N on trigger guard.
Thinking of converting back to percussion unless I can find a safe cylinder. Ideas?
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
Hello again,
There will be cost involved in buying a hammer and cylinder, but that is all you need to convert it back to percussion. I don't know what parts are available in Europe, and parts in the US will add mailing cost. Maybe advertise here on the WTB section. Finding a conversion cylinder that will work is another possibility, but maybe harder that finding a percussion cylinder. Good luck which ever way you go, and please let us know if you get it back in shooting condition.
Rem NMA revolvers generally had a barrel for 454 dia round ball, and didn't change the barrel when converting it. You might be able to find a cylinder in 44 Colt, or 44 Remington that will work.
Mismatched numbers usually mean that it was a gov gun and went through a tear down, inspection, and rebuild. Military armorers never considered future collectors when reassembling guns, so a part was just a part and was used without checking the numbers. The grips may have been replaced at this time.
63328 was made in March of 1864.
Daniel
There will be cost involved in buying a hammer and cylinder, but that is all you need to convert it back to percussion. I don't know what parts are available in Europe, and parts in the US will add mailing cost. Maybe advertise here on the WTB section. Finding a conversion cylinder that will work is another possibility, but maybe harder that finding a percussion cylinder. Good luck which ever way you go, and please let us know if you get it back in shooting condition.
Rem NMA revolvers generally had a barrel for 454 dia round ball, and didn't change the barrel when converting it. You might be able to find a cylinder in 44 Colt, or 44 Remington that will work.
Mismatched numbers usually mean that it was a gov gun and went through a tear down, inspection, and rebuild. Military armorers never considered future collectors when reassembling guns, so a part was just a part and was used without checking the numbers. The grips may have been replaced at this time.
63328 was made in March of 1864.
Daniel
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
Thanks for the help.
As for converting back to percussion, I have a hammer and repro cylinders seem to work. The one I have is a few thou too long but a file should take care of that.
The problem is finding a cartridge conversion cylinder. The 44-40 has the widest rim at 0.525 , the 45 LC is 0.512 while 44 Colt and 44 S&W are both 0.514". The cylinder diameter on my 1875 in 44-40 is the same as the 1858 using my crapy caliper so any of the above should work.
As for converting back to percussion, I have a hammer and repro cylinders seem to work. The one I have is a few thou too long but a file should take care of that.
The problem is finding a cartridge conversion cylinder. The 44-40 has the widest rim at 0.525 , the 45 LC is 0.512 while 44 Colt and 44 S&W are both 0.514". The cylinder diameter on my 1875 in 44-40 is the same as the 1858 using my crapy caliper so any of the above should work.
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
Hello,
Should have included this before, sorry for the delay. Try, https://kirstkonverter.com
They have several converters, and one with a built in ejector. As far as I know they can be shipped to Europe since they are not a firearm, but check you country's laws.
There was another company that at one time also offered conversion cylinders, but I don't remember their name. I checked Dixie Gun Works, but they don't list any conversion cylinders.
Good luck,
Daniel
Should have included this before, sorry for the delay. Try, https://kirstkonverter.com
They have several converters, and one with a built in ejector. As far as I know they can be shipped to Europe since they are not a firearm, but check you country's laws.
There was another company that at one time also offered conversion cylinders, but I don't remember their name. I checked Dixie Gun Works, but they don't list any conversion cylinders.
Good luck,
Daniel
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
BTW not in Europe - located in Mishawaka, IN right next to South Bend.
I know DGW doesn't have the cylinder as I dropped by a couple months ago while passing through Union City.
I know DGW doesn't have the cylinder as I dropped by a couple months ago while passing through Union City.
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
Yes, and if read all the info on the posts I would have seen your location. Oops! Going by your name, I thought you would be in Europe. Indiana, can't hold that against you since the wife's grandparents came from Evensville IN, and she has a lot of relatives there. You're almost a Michigander. I based a small part of my answers thinking you were in Europe, but 95% is still good and applies. Now I seriously doubt that your pistol was sent to France in 1870. 
If you'll excuse me, I have to wipe some egg off my face, before eating my breakfast crow.
Daniel
If you'll excuse me, I have to wipe some egg off my face, before eating my breakfast crow.
Daniel
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
Thanks for all the help. Another wrinkle. On 3/29/23 Jason60chev posted a conversion which looks much like mine. ????? His seems to be bored for 44 Colt.
What part of Michigan?
What part of Michigan?
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
Hi,
There are several conversions of remmie s that are very similar to yours. I have NMA conversion (not similar to yours) that gave me fits determining what caliber. Finally found a cartridge collector that had about a dozen different 44 and 45 cartridges. The only one that fit was a 44 Colt. Just enough of a difference between the Colt and Rem 44s that the rem wouldn't fit. No doubt in my mind that the 44 Colt was more popular than the 44 Rem.
SE, MI next to Davison, the winner of State's award for the best water in the state, for the last 2 years. 60 miles north of Detroit, 50 miles west of Port Huron, and 55 miles east of Lansing.
There are several conversions of remmie s that are very similar to yours. I have NMA conversion (not similar to yours) that gave me fits determining what caliber. Finally found a cartridge collector that had about a dozen different 44 and 45 cartridges. The only one that fit was a 44 Colt. Just enough of a difference between the Colt and Rem 44s that the rem wouldn't fit. No doubt in my mind that the 44 Colt was more popular than the 44 Rem.
SE, MI next to Davison, the winner of State's award for the best water in the state, for the last 2 years. 60 miles north of Detroit, 50 miles west of Port Huron, and 55 miles east of Lansing.
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
Did a chamber cast when I first obtained the NMR and it measures as a 45 LC. As to the 44 Colt, it would be a better match for the cylinder than the 45 LC but isn't it obsolete? The rim on the 44 measures 0.483" while the 45 is 0.512".
Question - is it possible to machine a cylinder to accommodate 45 LC so that the rims don't overlap?
Question - is it possible to machine a cylinder to accommodate 45 LC so that the rims don't overlap?
Re: 1858 NMA Conversion
Yes, I have a NMA conversion to 45LC which was done by Frank Osgood in 1908. It only has a five shot cylinder much like the 46RF Remington conversions.
Bill
Bill