Antique or not?: Remington Rolling Block Baby Carbine with 20" barrel

[orpington]

Are all, some, or none of these antique--that is, pre-1899 production? Note: Classification is based on the manufacture date of the frame, and not when fully assembled or when shipped. If some are classified as antique and others are not, how does one differentiate between the antique and non-antique ones?

[dieNusse1]

Good question. As far as I know the S/N would be used to determine pre 1899 status. This of course is possible only if a reliable S/N data base is available. If no data base is known the only other way would be to have the original sales documentation at hand which in most cases would be very unlikely. Another source might be military contracts.

Comments?

[orpington]

The question is with regards to the BABY carbines. I don't believe any were military. They were produced or sold 1892 to 1902. However, presumably receivers were forged in batches, all at once in 1892 or perhaps on multiple occasions, maybe all before 1899, thereby making all of these antique? Of course, it's possible receivers were forged 1892 until 1902, or at least until 1899 or after, making the conclusion that all are antique somewhat trickier.

I believe the Baby carbines contain a serial number or assembly number accessible upon removal of the stock. I referred to my records and mine has number '365'. Interestingly, mine has a blued saddle ring and most others don't. Possibly it is a replacement?[attachment=3]20160325_184359 (816 x 459).jpg

[ehull]

Light Baby Carbines with a tang marked “E. Remington &Sons” were made prior to the company’s bankruptcy in 1888. If marked “Remington Arms Company” then made later. There is insufficient ‘serial number’ (or factory inventory number) data to be able to accurately track pre/post 1898 manufacture.
The only known military use: the Argentine Navy bought several hundred of the early ones.

[orpington]

Well, the bankruptcy was in 1888. These Baby Carbines were produced 1892 to 1902. So is there ANY way to differentiate at least some as being, if not pre 1899/post 1898, then prior to a specific year prior to 1899? Maybe pre 1894 examples are different than later ones in some regard, for example?

[ehull]

No, there’s no way to tell pre-post 1898. All Remington Arms Co. made carbines had 20 inch barrels. The ER&S carbines had differing barrel lengths and choices of .44 RF or CF, 1884-88.

[aardq]

Just came across this thread. Were the baby carbines made over several years, or was just one batch made. The number made in any given year is based on shipping records, and not on actual production. It takes too much time and effort to set up a production line for any specific model. only to make a few hundred and then tear down the line and set it up for a different model. How many baby carbines were made? If 2500 or less, they were probably made in one production run, shelved, and then sold over a period of years.

The RB pistols is a great example of this. regardless of the model name, or shipping date, ALL RB pistol frames were made by ERS, so they are ALL pre 1888. Assembly date doesn't matter, only the manufacture date of the frame.

Good Luck,
Daniel

[orpington]

Just came across this thread. Were the baby carbines made over several years, or was just one batch made. The number made in any given year is based on shipping records, and not on actual production. It takes too much time and effort to set up a production line for any specific model. only to make a few hundred and then tear down the line and set it up for a different model. How many baby carbines were made? If 2500 or less, they were probably made in one production run, shelved, and then sold over a period of years.

The RB pistols is a great example of this. regardless of the model name, or shipping date, ALL RB pistol frames were made by ERS, so they are ALL pre 1888. Assembly date doesn't matter, only the manufacture date of the frame.

Good Luck,
Daniel

That’s exactly my point! My guess is given the limited number of Baby Carbine rifles, that they were batch produced in 1892 or 1892 and a few years thereafter, but sold until 1902. BUT, ALL were manufactured prior to 1899 and all should, therefore, be considered as ANTIQUE.

[orpington]

Interestingly, here’s another one with blued components, including the saddle ring, and weak upper markings, as nickeled.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns- ... =101067818

[superc_19]

Baby Rolling Block carbines in .44-40 were initially a special military order for the Army of Uruguay cavalry. After the order had been placed the Remington catalog shows a few were offered to the civilian market in the US. The civilian versions mostly have octagonal barrels and were often blued. The military version that went to Uruguay was left in the white (bare metal) and had round barrels and a cute little flip up sight.

[aardq]

Super c,
Thanks for the info. Were the civilian baby carbines made for the civilian market, or were they guns that failed the military inspection?

Thanks.
Daniel