Pigeon Gun ? or Trap Gun ?

[M1tankgod]

I measured the chambers it is 3.03 inches to the forcing cone, diameter is .808 on both barrels

did Remington keep records of the guns they gave their company shooters ?

[AZMike]

I believe Remington set the FE to a different standard with the higher comb and beautiful "dished" rib. The modern trap shooters are still working with the same principals of trying to hit a rising target.

[Drew Hause]

re: Pigeon gun vs. pigeon stock. As today, makers at the turn-of-the-century could label/market guns however they wished. But in general, a gun used for Live Bird competitions was likely to be a straight "English" grip

Comments regarding the Riverton Handicap March 8, 1895
“All the guns were 12 gauge, and it was noticeable that not a full pistol-grip stock was among the number, and most of them were the straight-grip ‘pigeon gun’ model, nine being of this description, and six of the half-grip style."

Fred Gilbert was one of the world’s best known shooters from 1895-1915 and used a L.C. Smith to win the DuPont World’s Pigeon Shooting Championship in 1895 and the “E.C.” Inanimate Target Championship Cup in 1896. The “Fred Gilbert Specifications” were for a drop at comb of 1 3/8 inches; at the heel, 2 inches; length from trigger to heel, 14 1/4 inches; trigger to toe 14 1/2 inches; and trigger to center of butt 14 inches; with a full pistol grip and 30-inch full choke barrels.
Thereafter the pistol grip became more popular, but the straight grip endured.

March 2, 1907 American Field courtesy of David Noreen. Straight stock C.E.O. and F.E.



Winchester 1897 "Tournament"



Marlin "Trap" in 1909



Remington Pump Shotgun in 1914



Model 10T 1926 still illustrated with a straight stock

[Drew Hause]

L.C. Smith "Pigeon" Gun (not grade) 1894



1910 "Regular or Monte Carlo, Pistol or Straight grip"

[M1tankgod]

I love all the information provided on this shotgun

All very helpful , Thanks to all that replied , I have a couple more questions

1. Is there anyway to tie this directly Fulford and the 1898 GAH ?

2. Any records as far as manufacturing / left the factory configuration or special order information ?
3. What is this worth in current condition vs restored ?
And if it can be established that this indeed was the shotgun used by Fulford how would that impact value ?

Thanks for all your help
Ken

[Researcher]

1. Not that I know of.

2. No.

3. Only a well advertised, no reserve, auction can tell that. Very likely the cost of a correct restoration by one of our present day masters would far exceed the market value of the fully restored gun.

[AZMike]

I think we still call clay targets "clay pigeons" as a reference to the cross over between the two disciplines-- Trap Gun or Pigeon Gun?
Ken, Remingtons have never held any sort of collectable value close to Parker or Fox. (that's why I collect them)!

[M1tankgod]

Thanks Mike , I do the same and somehow have close to twenty of them I have adopted in to a good home with the thoughts of giving one to each of my nephews and nieces

[Canvasback]

1. Not that I know of.

2. No.

3. Only a well advertised, no reserve, auction can tell that. Very likely the cost of a correct restoration by one of our present day masters would far exceed the market value of the fully restored gun.

Having just restored a circa 1907 1894 BE with Damascus barrels, I know this to be true. When the restock is included (original was not salvageable), it proves I am insane. On the plus side, I bought it in shootable condition for $400 Cdn. That's about $300 USD. So you can get started with Remingtons on the cheap. Love them!

[jose1983]

Here is a picture of the barrels I will take another when I get home this evening, marked. 2-7/8 inch
I know that the markings on the barrels are not like any of my other Remingtons showing shot count , on the rearward locking lug it has the word full stamped in it

What would be the odds that this is the gun Fulford used ? would be incredible if it was and could be documented

Thanks for the great information
I might learn more when I start to get it back into working order and uncover the working parts

Ken

Please, could you take some pictures of the rest of the marks stamped under the barrels? They may have something like ///M or an O stamped.