Carl Ennis engraved Model 141
Carl Ennis engraved Model 141
Is anyone doing research on early engraved Model 141 rifles or custom shop rifles in general? 62,472 is the serial number of my Ennis engraved Model 141E. I assume it is an E Grade because it does not have quite the engraving coverage of a normal F Grade but has the three game scenes. Is there a Remington catalog that shows the 141E? wilmrph@verizon.net Thanks for any help. Bill Murphy
I don't have the patience to post pictures, but it is a nice gun with bear, deer, and sheep scenes and outrageous American Walnut stock and forearm, the forearm grooved, the first grooved forearm I've seen on a graded 141. I notice my profile does not include the fact that I live in MD. Anyone who wants to examine it can see it at the Vintagers in the PGCA tent. It is signed by Ennis, a relatively unpraised Remington engraver who may be the best. An Ennis sample plate discovered by the RSA research team a few years ago was just out of this world.
Yes, Gene, it has the E that is reputedly an Ennis signature (am I correct about that?). It is field used and shows no signs of fakery. The grooved forend of very high grade American walnut is nothing off of anyone's standard grade 141. A fake would obviously not have a grooved forend. It is a very unusual touch. I'm not having a lot of luck finding Remington manufacture date codes on the barrel but, as you suggest, it is probably postwar. What does the serial number indicate for date of manufacture? Thanks for the Ennis picture. I don't have one. By the way, I don't have a copy of the F Grade 141 catalog picture. I would appreciate a scan of it by email. Thanks. Bill Murphy
I realize there is a large variation in quality and effort in F Grade guns over the years, but there is a vast difference between my gun and the Model 141 F Grade picture you sent me. An example of the difference in F Grades is an early catalog picture of an outrageous Model 10F in contrast to my Sousa 10F which is much more conservative, probably because it is a comp gun given to Sousa by Remington. Parker Brothers comped many graded guns in the early days and some of them are quite plain compared to other guns of identical grade that were ordered and paid for by customers. Regardless of these facts, I am still of the opinion that my gun is an Expert (E) Grade although not marked as such.
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shot1too
Bill
There were changes make in the Remington system of engraving during the life of the 141. An expample is the "C" grade changing to a "B" grade; however the announcement by Remington to the Jobbers did not list an "E" grade. I am fairly confident that no "E" grades were ever made in the 141. I don't know if your rifle is a "F" grade or not. There is a possibility that it was a special order. That would be an answer to the configuration of the forearm. Is the word "GAMEMASTER" on the side of the receiver? From your description I have no doubt it is Remington engraved. Do you have any history?
Loren
PS: This is an invitation for someone out there to prove me wrong about the existence of an "E" grade 141.
There were changes make in the Remington system of engraving during the life of the 141. An expample is the "C" grade changing to a "B" grade; however the announcement by Remington to the Jobbers did not list an "E" grade. I am fairly confident that no "E" grades were ever made in the 141. I don't know if your rifle is a "F" grade or not. There is a possibility that it was a special order. That would be an answer to the configuration of the forearm. Is the word "GAMEMASTER" on the side of the receiver? From your description I have no doubt it is Remington engraved. Do you have any history?
Loren
PS: This is an invitation for someone out there to prove me wrong about the existence of an "E" grade 141.
Loren, no "Gamemaster" marking. Nor do I agree that this gun could be an F Grade unless it is a comp gun or some other less than maximum effort example. Too many areas not covered by engraving. It is not a D either. It has three game scenes. It is an E for sure, in my opinion, even if it is the only one.
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shot1too
Bill
I've been around Remington long enough to know that noting is written in stone. The only description on an "E" grade 14 I have ever found is in the 1913-14 catalog. There it says the following: "Specifications- Same as the No. 14C, but with stock and fore-arm elaborately checkered. Silver name plate inlaid in the stock. The receiver and barrel are finished with beaitiful deep scroll hand engraving with a game panel on left side of receiver. All working parts are hand polished." After this catalog the "E" is not mentioned again in the 14 line.
Even though things seem to have changed with the engaving by the time your rifle was done, the factory stayed with the same type of coverage by grade. This leads me to speculate that your rifle may have been made just for a special purpose, person or event. Is you rifle an "E" grade? As I said before, never say never when talking about Remingtons, but the description you have given doesn't match the one from 1913. The fact that your gun exists is an exciting event. It may remain a mystery until more information can be found.
I've been around Remington long enough to know that noting is written in stone. The only description on an "E" grade 14 I have ever found is in the 1913-14 catalog. There it says the following: "Specifications- Same as the No. 14C, but with stock and fore-arm elaborately checkered. Silver name plate inlaid in the stock. The receiver and barrel are finished with beaitiful deep scroll hand engraving with a game panel on left side of receiver. All working parts are hand polished." After this catalog the "E" is not mentioned again in the 14 line.
Even though things seem to have changed with the engaving by the time your rifle was done, the factory stayed with the same type of coverage by grade. This leads me to speculate that your rifle may have been made just for a special purpose, person or event. Is you rifle an "E" grade? As I said before, never say never when talking about Remingtons, but the description you have given doesn't match the one from 1913. The fact that your gun exists is an exciting event. It may remain a mystery until more information can be found.
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remjim
I have a REM Mod. 141-D. s/n 68,5xx, production code AUU (MAR 1949)
.35REM, Bottom of receiver engraved MOD 141 *D* over engravrd s/n.
Checkered buttstock, with PG and PG cap, checkered beaver tailed forearm without groves.
Here's something unusual; engraved into the left side of barrel just above the barrel code is a 5/32 inch Capital letter F in a horizontal position, points down, on it's side.
Old price list shows D grade cost $251.80 in 1948.
Anyone have any info on the lazy "F"?
.35REM, Bottom of receiver engraved MOD 141 *D* over engravrd s/n.
Checkered buttstock, with PG and PG cap, checkered beaver tailed forearm without groves.
Here's something unusual; engraved into the left side of barrel just above the barrel code is a 5/32 inch Capital letter F in a horizontal position, points down, on it's side.
Old price list shows D grade cost $251.80 in 1948.
Anyone have any info on the lazy "F"?
Re: Carl Ennis engraved Model 141
Gene, is there any more information about E Grade 141s? I am not active in RSA affairs any more, but I hope you enjoyed my article on the Sousa 10F.
Re: Carl Ennis engraved Model 141
Gene, I have recently purchased a very nice 10E two barrel set. I wonder how scarce they are? I still own the John Phillip Sousa 10F that I wrote about in the RSA Journal and they look great together.