Was Smith Corona rifling different than Remington's?
Remington's rifling lands are wide.. was SC's too?
03A3 Springfield (Remington)
Re: 03A3 Springfield (Remington)
I don't know, but do some searching through these links and see if you can find what you're looking for.milboltnut wrote:Was Smith Corona rifling different than Remington's?
Remington's rifling lands are wide.. was SC's too?
https://www.google.com/search?q=Product ... 8&oe=utf-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=O3-A3+r ... 8&oe=utf-8
I have one sporterized '03 and one sporterized '03-A3. (sporterized long before I acquired them)
The main barrel differences I know of are that some had 2 grooves and some had 4 grooves.
I have read that there was little or no difference in their performance with the differences in grooves.
If you find anything interesting, please report back.
Den
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milboltnut
Re: 03A3 Springfield (Remington)
well according to Milsurp.com they say that Smith Corona were 4 groove. (Source: ....The Springfield 1903 Rifles by Lt. Col. William S. Brophy )
My sporter is RI receiver and the barrel is Remington 2 groove. My question is did only Remington make bore lands wide? Was it their signature?
My sporter is RI receiver and the barrel is Remington 2 groove. My question is did only Remington make bore lands wide? Was it their signature?
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son.of.hans
Re: 03A3 Springfield (Remington)
Greetings,
Remington Arms began their '03 production with the standard 4 groove rifling. However, upon the Japanese war declaration, the rifle production rate was increased to 3000 rifles per day. This resulted in the M1903A3. After the British success with the 2 groove barrel experimentation, Remington conducted a thorough testing program which concluded the 2 groove rifling was possibly even better than 4 groove. This resulted in Ordnance approval in October 1942 after which all Remington Barrels switched over 2 groove beginning in about Febr. 1943.
Smith-Corona was on an entirely different track. They started out producing 6 groove barrels since their sub-contractor was only set up for that. As the war progressed, so did their cost issues...resulting in switching over to 4 groove rifling after a few months. Even so, S-C never never quite caught up with the Remington directed momentum of the M1903A3 program and didn't get around to retooling for 2 groove barrels until shortly before their contract termination in late 1943. Bottomline: Remington 2 groove barrels became standard after mid 1943, whereas S-C's production of 2 groove are dated mostly in 11-43 and somewhat scarce.
Regards,
Bill
Remington Arms began their '03 production with the standard 4 groove rifling. However, upon the Japanese war declaration, the rifle production rate was increased to 3000 rifles per day. This resulted in the M1903A3. After the British success with the 2 groove barrel experimentation, Remington conducted a thorough testing program which concluded the 2 groove rifling was possibly even better than 4 groove. This resulted in Ordnance approval in October 1942 after which all Remington Barrels switched over 2 groove beginning in about Febr. 1943.
Smith-Corona was on an entirely different track. They started out producing 6 groove barrels since their sub-contractor was only set up for that. As the war progressed, so did their cost issues...resulting in switching over to 4 groove rifling after a few months. Even so, S-C never never quite caught up with the Remington directed momentum of the M1903A3 program and didn't get around to retooling for 2 groove barrels until shortly before their contract termination in late 1943. Bottomline: Remington 2 groove barrels became standard after mid 1943, whereas S-C's production of 2 groove are dated mostly in 11-43 and somewhat scarce.
Regards,
Bill
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son.of.hans
Re: 03A3 Springfield (Remington)
Greetings again,
You have me a bit confused ??? You say you have a "RI" receiver with a 9-43 Remington 2 groove barrel. You also say your stock is a "JSA" stock.
If I'm reading correctly, you have a "Rock Island" receiver. But, the problem is that Armory's production never exceeded about 431,000 rifles. If your stock is stamped with a JSA stock, it is a transplant from a Springfield Armory stock likely made before WWI. If your receiver has a SN in the 4.24 million range, then I don't know what to say since Remington's A3 series numbering never exceeded about 4,209,XXX; Smith-Corona had no SN's in the 3.7 to 4.7 million range and the Springfield Armory production never exceeded about 1.54 million.
I'd like to be more specific and helpful, but much of the data provided either doesn't exist or fit any standard expectation for a rifle with pedigree. The WWII 2-groove rifling was only made during WWII and mostly by the Remington Arms Co. They are excellent barrels.
Bill
You have me a bit confused ??? You say you have a "RI" receiver with a 9-43 Remington 2 groove barrel. You also say your stock is a "JSA" stock.
If I'm reading correctly, you have a "Rock Island" receiver. But, the problem is that Armory's production never exceeded about 431,000 rifles. If your stock is stamped with a JSA stock, it is a transplant from a Springfield Armory stock likely made before WWI. If your receiver has a SN in the 4.24 million range, then I don't know what to say since Remington's A3 series numbering never exceeded about 4,209,XXX; Smith-Corona had no SN's in the 3.7 to 4.7 million range and the Springfield Armory production never exceeded about 1.54 million.
I'd like to be more specific and helpful, but much of the data provided either doesn't exist or fit any standard expectation for a rifle with pedigree. The WWII 2-groove rifling was only made during WWII and mostly by the Remington Arms Co. They are excellent barrels.
Bill
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milboltnut
Re: 03A3 Springfield (Remington)
sorry different rifle...
I also have a Remington 03A3..
4.24 million with a 9-43 barrel.. is the barrel matching the receiver, and the stock is Remington. Is there any way to tell if the stock is original with the receiver and barrel?
I also have a Remington 03A3..
4.24 million with a 9-43 barrel.. is the barrel matching the receiver, and the stock is Remington. Is there any way to tell if the stock is original with the receiver and barrel?
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son.of.hans
Re: 03A3 Springfield (Remington)
Greetings again,
Yes, the S-C 2 groove barrels were essentially identical to Remington's for one primary reason. The two groove approved design tested and established through Remington's 1942 experimentation program between Febr. and June 1942 required S-C to follow suit . The methodology of the time for 4 groove barrel manufacture was essentially standard "cut rifling" with Sine-Bar style tooling. The new 2-groove barrels were manufactured using these same standard rifling machines, but each had to be indexed by hand in order to cut only two opposing grooves at 180 degrees separation in lieu of the standard four. In other words, the indexing mechanism on the rifling machine had to be modified since it was inherently designed to travel through 90 degrees, not 180 in order to meet the standard dimensional tolerance allowances for the Springfield's 4 groove M1903 without changing the width or depth of the grooves. The result was the following:
Width of groove: 0.1797 ( +0.000; - 0.003)
Rifling diameter: 0.308 (+0.001; - 0.000)
Bore diameter: 0.300 (+0.001; - 0.000)
Groove depth: 0.004 (+0.0005; - 0.0000)
Bottomline: The 2-groove barrel configuration was identical to the standard 4-groove barrel, except for omission of two opposing grooves.
Bill
Yes, the S-C 2 groove barrels were essentially identical to Remington's for one primary reason. The two groove approved design tested and established through Remington's 1942 experimentation program between Febr. and June 1942 required S-C to follow suit . The methodology of the time for 4 groove barrel manufacture was essentially standard "cut rifling" with Sine-Bar style tooling. The new 2-groove barrels were manufactured using these same standard rifling machines, but each had to be indexed by hand in order to cut only two opposing grooves at 180 degrees separation in lieu of the standard four. In other words, the indexing mechanism on the rifling machine had to be modified since it was inherently designed to travel through 90 degrees, not 180 in order to meet the standard dimensional tolerance allowances for the Springfield's 4 groove M1903 without changing the width or depth of the grooves. The result was the following:
Width of groove: 0.1797 ( +0.000; - 0.003)
Rifling diameter: 0.308 (+0.001; - 0.000)
Bore diameter: 0.300 (+0.001; - 0.000)
Groove depth: 0.004 (+0.0005; - 0.0000)
Bottomline: The 2-groove barrel configuration was identical to the standard 4-groove barrel, except for omission of two opposing grooves.
Bill
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milboltnut
Re: 03A3 Springfield (Remington)
4.24 million with a 9-43 barrel.. is the barrel matching the receiver, and the stock is Remington. Is there any way to tell if the stock is original with the receiver and barrel?
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son.of.hans
Re: 03A3 Springfield (Remington)
Greetings again,
First go back and review my post of March 19/3:48PM. Remington's 'A3 program never reached 4.24 million rifles (serial numbers). Your 9-43 barrel should likely have a SN somewhere between 3.96 and 4.15 million.
There is no way to assuredly authenticate the original pairing of a barreled receiver with its stock & hand guard since the stock wood was never identified with the receiver's SN. Bottomline: A professional examination of the rifle's totality is essential for an opinion about originality. That opinion will depend on: (1) If the stock wood coloring and finish wear is consistent with the rest of the rifle; (2) If the stock carries a correct array of the inspector stamps in front of the TG along with a proof "P" + FJA + RA + Ord. stamps consistent with the period of manufacture; and (3) the metal components making up the barreled action (including bolt) are also consistent with the manufacture's unique variations, including color, finish, stamps and markings.
Regards,
Bill
First go back and review my post of March 19/3:48PM. Remington's 'A3 program never reached 4.24 million rifles (serial numbers). Your 9-43 barrel should likely have a SN somewhere between 3.96 and 4.15 million.
There is no way to assuredly authenticate the original pairing of a barreled receiver with its stock & hand guard since the stock wood was never identified with the receiver's SN. Bottomline: A professional examination of the rifle's totality is essential for an opinion about originality. That opinion will depend on: (1) If the stock wood coloring and finish wear is consistent with the rest of the rifle; (2) If the stock carries a correct array of the inspector stamps in front of the TG along with a proof "P" + FJA + RA + Ord. stamps consistent with the period of manufacture; and (3) the metal components making up the barreled action (including bolt) are also consistent with the manufacture's unique variations, including color, finish, stamps and markings.
Regards,
Bill
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milboltnut
Re: 03A3 Springfield (Remington)
sorry, meant 4,024,628. Got the rest of the info. Understood.