Minnecounjou and his Remington

[jon_norstog]

This came up on my facebook page today:; the man is supposedly Touch-the-clouds, a Minneconjou. Picture taken in 1877.

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... 3815_n.jpg

The west was awash in guns after the Civil War.

jn

[JimMill]

It may be Custers #1 sporting rifle.

Jim

[Dick Hosmer]

Touch-the-clouds was said to have been "nearly seven feet tall", hence his name, way above average for his race.

I'm sure that rifle - if (and that's a big if) it was actually brought in by TTC, was checked, very thoroughly, at time of sitting! It is far more likely to be a photographer's prop.

[JimMill]

Some great reading on the subject can be found in C. Vance Haynes book "General Custer and his Sporting Rifles. Alot of information in a small book.

[jon_norstog]

Dick and I will have to disagree on that one. I would not go so far as to say I was certain, but my own thought is that Touch the clouds COULD have very well ended up with a trophy like that. he was a member of the inner leadership circle and was particularly close to Crazy Horse. That, plus the general look of the shot - no painted backdrop, the subject is not dolled up at all, and you can see grass on the "floor" of the studio.

The picture was taken in 1877, less than a year after the fight at Greasy Grass. It was a terrible year for the US, the Army was stretched to the breaking point, and they were being very careful to not antagonize native leaders any more than they had to.

Well they are all dead now and the gun will never be found again. As they say, "it's all grass."

jn

[Dick Hosmer]

My point was not to deny that TTC could have HAD the rifle, that is very possible - my contention is that he would probably have been smart enough NOT to bring such an item to a photo shoot, but, if he did, would the authorities (assuming any were present) would have let him leave with it? Also, remember that there were no "snapshots" in those days - whether in studio, or out of doors, such pictures were carefully staged and posed. A fine looking man, with an interesting rifle, in any event.

[vulture]

I'm certainly no expert on what guns Custer owned and used, but the only rolling block I can remember seeing him holding in a photo was a sporter with a tapered barrel, not a heavy full octagon such as TTC is holding in this photo. Not to say that Custer didn't own such a rifle, but this one sure looks heavy and for some reason not what I imagine Custer having, especially on the day he died, now some buffalo hunter would deffinatly carry such a rifle.