1900 double shotgun

[Nedroe2]

Hi,

I have acquired a 1900 SxS, 12GA., 30 INCH. Barrels appear to be Damascus, however, the striations are very faint. Barrels are marked on bottom /// KF6. There is also the letter P on both. Serial number is in the 3283xx range. Gun has auto ejectors. Can anyone help enlighten me? Are the barrels Damascus? What year was it produced? Can I shoot it?


Thanks

[Researcher]

317,503 to 337,038 was the serial number range for 1902, the peak year of production for the Model 1900. Charles Semmer in his book on Remington Double Shotguns speculates on page 261 that the P was the proof mark Remington Arms Co. was using at that time. He also speculates that the hash marks have something to do with the degree of choke in the barrels. However, the numbers on the bottom of the rear of the barrel lug are the actual pellet counts of the factory test pattern, so why would they use another mark? If the numbers on the lug are two-digit numbers a leading 3 is implied. Remington 12-gauge doubles were normally patterned with 1 1/4 ounces of #8 shot going 511 pellets to the charge. My 12-gauge Model 1900 is marked 28 and 33. So, the patterns would have been 328/511 = 64% right and 333/511 = 65% left or about improved modified in both tubes.

Not enough is known about the markings on the bottoms of the barrels on Remington doubles to be able to tell for sure what the barrel material is from those markings. However, a D does seem to be pretty consistant on the bottoms of the barrel tubes of Model 1900s with Damascus barrels.

[Nedroe2]

Thanks Researcher,

that's more than I had. Anyone else add anything?

[skeettx]

Hello, I have really enjoyed finding this web site and reading about the 1900 shotguns, I have a 1900 with the 26 inch barrels marked KEY and the serial number starting with Q. It has ejectors, a single trigger, and ivory front and middle beads. Is there any significance to the Q at the beginning of the serial number? Thanks, Mike

[skeettx]

Hello, Are you sure that the barrels are not marked KED, instead of KF6.
This would make your gun a Damascus gun. Now I do have friends that shoot smokeless in Damascus guns, but they have had their guns re-proffed and their life insurances premiums paid in advance. If your gun is demascus, and I feel it is, please get a second opinion. Happy New Year, Mike

[Researcher]

We know from the guns that have survived with their original hang tag that the implied digit is a leading 3. So, your guns pellet counts would have been 338/511 = 66% for the right barrel and 343/511 = 67% for the left. Just a little tighter then my gun, but still improved modified in both barrels. I'd say there is a good chance that someone has opened the choke in your right barrel since your gun left Ilion 103 or so years ago. Some of these Remington doubles are very over-bored, so even if a heavily choked gun, a dime might still get through. My Father's 1896-vintage AE-Grade Model 1894 that he picked up stone mint during WW-II has bores of .744". He carried and shot that Damascus barrel gun continuously, using all manner of smokeless loads, Western Super-X, Remington Nitro Express, Federal Hi-Power, etc. until his last year of hunting in 1987. I gave him a Winchester Model 101 20-gauge over-under in the early 1970s which he carried quite a bit, but if ever he missed with it he'd say "I'd have got that if I was shooting my old Remington!" My Father had a Model 1900 KED-Grade 12-gauge before he got his Model 1894, and gave it to his younger brother when he returned from WW-II. It was fired with all manner of heavy loads by my relatives in Minnesota until in the early days of steel shot they bulged the choke and broke the solder holding the barrels and rib together near the muzzle.

The above being said, I don't play Damascus roulette myself, and do not recommend anyone else shoot Damascus barrel guns.

The letter "Q" preceeding the serial number was the Remington inventory code for Model 1900s. A letter "P" often preceeds the serial number on Model 1894s and was their inventory code.

[Guest]

Hello, I have really enjoyed finding this web site and reading about the 1900 shotguns, I have a 1900 with the 26 inch barrels marked KEY and the serial number starting with Q. It has ejectors, a single trigger, and ivory front and middle beads. Is there any significance to the Q at the beginning of the serial number? Thanks, Mike

[url]
Mike:
If your Rem 1900 does have a single trigger as you state that is the first one I have heard of. That would be quite a rarity you have there. Also I have never heard of another 1900 with twin ivory beads. I would like to suggest to you that you get a hold of Charlie Semmer in Denver and tell what you have. He might want to do a write up on it in the Double Gun Journal.[/url]

[Researcher]

Mike,

If your Model 1900 has a single trigger the odds are great that it was fitted after the gun left Ilion. Several companies specialized in this -- Lancaster Arms Co. with their Infallible single trigger was one of the larger concerns. That trigger had a selector button along the left side of the upper tang. There was also the Philadelphia Single Trigger Co. on Olney Street; E.D. Fulford; Moran & Wolfersperger in Chicago; Lindsey; and the best of all the Miller single trigger which I believe Doug Turnbull still offers.

Remington Arms Co. was certainly thinking about a single trigger as I've collected 14 patents for single triggers that either show them on a Model 1894/1900 or are assigned to Remington Arms Co. Remington Arms Co. only catalogued 26-inch barrels on their high grade Model 1894s until the 1908-9 catalogue when they are listed for the Model 1900 K- and KE-Grades, but not for the Damascus barreled KD- and KED-Grades.

Semmer shows a set of 12-gauge KE-Grade barrels (page 263) from serial number 361550, and they have ///KEY on the bottom of both tubes. The pellet count stampings are 50 right and 64 left which would be 350/511 = 68.5% and 364/511 = 71.2%. Semmer says these barrels measure full and extra full.

All my old Remington Arms Co. catalogues offer all kinds of optional sights for their rifles, but I can find no mention of the Lyman twin ivory sights for shotguns. Most all the other double gun manufacturers offered them, and I'd be willing to bet Remington would put them on if a customer ordered them, however special orders for a stock gun like a Model 1900 would seem kind of out of place. The is no mention of recoil pads in the Remington Arms Co. catalogues, but we have seen enough high grade Model 1894s with a leather-faced Silvers pad, with spur, to believe they left Ilion that way.

I'd love to see some pictures of your gun to see if we could identify the single trigger. You could email them to me at --

david.noreen@comcast.net

Thanks in advance

Dave

[Nedroe2]

Both my barrels are for sure marked ///KF6, but I have no idea what it implies. I have seen references to a "fluid steel barrel", anyone know what that means?

[Researcher]

Semmer reports a K-Grade with markings XKF2 and another with markings PXKF15. Also a KE marked PXKE15. We suspect that the K is the grade, and the E stands for ejectors. Semmer shows the markings on nine Model 1900s on page 261 of his book. There are two things consistant across the board, all nine have a letter K within the markings on the bottom of the barrel tubes, and the six Damascus barrel guns all have a D. Two of the ejector guns do not have a letter E. The two guns with a letter F are extractor guns. The guns with a numeral in the markings are Remington Steel barrel guns.

Remington Arms Co. didn't use the term "fluid steel" in any of their catalogues. Their barrels were called "Decarbonized Steel" on the Grade 1 Model 1889; "Remington Steel" on the Model 1900s and also on A and B Grade Model 1894s, and their best "Ordinance Steel" on Model 1894s. In The Double Gun Journal article in Volume Eleven, Issue 4, page 141, Charles Semmer shows a set of Model 1894 barrels marked "Krupp Fluid Steel." He reports having recorded three such guns, all high grades, from very late production 140667, 140670 and 140672.

[skeettx]

Hello All, Yes single trigger, ejectors, 26 inch barrels and double ivory beads, and I have taken some very nice digital pictures. Charles Semmer can be contacted how? Enjoy the day, Mike

[Guest]

In The Double Gun Journal article in Volume Eleven, Issue 4, page 141, Charles Semmer shows a set of Model 1894 barrels marked "Krupp Fluid Steel." He reports having recorded three such guns, all high grades, from very late production 140667, 140670 and 140672.

Reseacher:
The Krupp barrels you mentioned are mine. I purchased them several years ago from Hershel Chadick. Several years after after that I purchased a 12 ga CEO receiver with stock attached which just happened to fit the barrels perfectly. Now all I need is a forend and I will have a great hunting shotgun. Charlie has since told me that he was contacted by someone who knew the location of the EEO the barrels came from. It is a complete shotgun so it was a two barrel set. Charlie tried to have the shotgun sent to him so that he could write an article for DGJ but the owner was not interested. Too bad as I would love to see the shotgun. I also have a CEO 16 ga with twin ivory beads. My most unusual 1900 is one with a factory original straight grip stock. Charlie told me that he has not seen another one.

Charlie Semmer can be reached at 303-429-6947

[DavidFagan]

Hello All, Yes single trigger, ejectors, 26 inch barrels and double ivory beads, and I have taken some very nice digital pictures. Charles Semmer can be contacted how? Enjoy the day, Mike

If you send me the photo's I will put them up on the this website so everyone can see them...

Best Regards,
David.
(Web site admin)

[DavidFagan]

Hello All, Yes single trigger, ejectors, 26 inch barrels and double ivory beads, and I have taken some very nice digital pictures. Charles Semmer can be contacted how? Enjoy the day, Mike

If you send me the photo's I will put them up on the this website so everyone can see them...

Best Regards,
David.
(Web site admin)

As promised....