M700 Lawsuits?

[tudurgs]

Anyone seeing this in their areas?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39762769/ns ... etroit_mi/

[Wulfman]

You can watch the show tonight on CNBC (if you get that channel).
I'm going to try to watch it.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/39740539/

I didn't know this was still ongoing. I had heard of some situations years ago......and then nothing till now. Back then, it was speculated that it was occurring on rifles that had had their trigger pull altered.......particularly by less-than-competent individuals.


Den

[tudurgs]

Just watched the TV show. IMHO, typical TV hatchet job. A number of pictures showing shotgun barrels or non-Remington actions
With many millions produced, it's still a great rifle, and I've owned several.

[Wulfman]

Actually, I thought the piece was fairly well balanced. I was pleasantly surprised to see that Mike Walker is still alive.......and his input was quite revealing. It's too bad that Remington didn't decide to spend the extra 5 1/2 cents per unit back in the late 40's and go with a better design. In the long run, it probably would have been much cheaper than dealing with the lawsuits, settlements and related expenses.
I guess it's like anything else......people can get hurt or killed with many products on the market before someone realizes (and admits) there's a problem. It probably makes for a bigger story when you're talking about firearms......rather than things like strollers or baby cribs......the stories of injuries and death from those things being equally, if not more tragic.


Den

[Wulfman]

I don't think that Remington corporate headquarters thought it was all that "fair and balanced".

http://m.remington700.tv/

Personally, I'm not making a judgment as to the quality of their triggers. I've never had any problems with mine.....and I own close to two dozen of those related firearms......most of which were adjusted to a more consistent pull (about 2 lbs.) by a competent gunsmith quite a few years ago.


Den

[energizer]

I have a 700 in 25-06. It is a bit beat up already. So after hearing about the broadcast and the safety issues I took it out. Loaded the clip. Cranked a round in the chamber. Pointed it in a safe direction and proceeded to beat the crap out of it. I smacked the but stock against a stump. I beat against the bolt. I wacked the sides, the top, the bottom. Sorry, but untill i pulled the trigger it just would not go off. You just don't know how unhappy i am right now. Apparently some swat guy only had to wack the bolt slightly and his fired but I'm stuck with pulling the trigger. I didn't actually see the program myself but after hearing about it i looked for info on it on the internet. That's how i found this site. I've owned my gun for about 20 years. How old it is i could not tell you as i bought it used but i have never done any custom work to it.

[Rem725]

I have a 700 in 25-06. It is a bit beat up already. So after hearing about the broadcast and the safety issues I took it out. Loaded the clip. Cranked a round in the chamber. Pointed it in a safe direction and proceeded to beat the crap out of it. I smacked the but stock against a stump. I beat against the bolt. I wacked the sides, the top, the bottom. Sorry, but untill i pulled the trigger it just would not go off. You just don't know how unhappy i am right now. Apparently some swat guy only had to wack the bolt slightly and his fired but I'm stuck with pulling the trigger. I didn't actually see the program myself but after hearing about it i looked for info on it on the internet. That's how i found this site. I've owned my gun for about 20 years. How old it is i could not tell you as i bought it used but i have never done any custom work to it.

You know, although your tests are valid, along with learned inspection, you didn't have to "load" the rifle to see if the firing pin would drop.

[Rem725]

.................

The moral of the story is - that people should let the factory trigger alone if they don't know what they are doing!

Regular inspection and cleaning is important too. But you still got to know what you are doing

[energizer]

No. I didn't have to load it but if it's loaded all things are equal right. I was out hunting whitetail by myself and if the gun had gone off I knew exactly where the bullet would have gone. Don't get me wrong. I didn't go snake crazy with my gun. Just some bangs here. A few wacks there and a thump or two to set thing right. I live in northern canada (valleyview AB) and do a considerable amount of hunting. Lots of wide open, non populated areas to play in up here. One question I might have had if my experiment had been with a empty barrel would have been. "Does the bolt seat differently with a round in the chamber?"

[Rem725]

My Dad taught me to test the 721-2 triggers with firm bolt closing, and bouncing the butt on the floor after every maintenance session. Dad had 721s (first a 270) since 1949. My first Rem was a 725 270 in 1959. I was 10. With care and proper adjustment the rifles were safe.

[.375 ULTRA]

I don't think that Remington corporate headquarters thought it was all that "fair and balanced".

http://m.remington700.tv/

I've never had any problems with mine.....and I own 3 of those related firearms......1 of which were adjusted to a more consistent pull (about 3 lbs.) by a questionably competent gunsmith quite a few years ago.

I posted that link somewhere and most of the responses seemed to be from guys who only watched the MSNBC show; without making the effort to see what REMINGTON had to say about it.

The above changes in red to your quote were put there to show that I indeed agree with you.
I should, however, have my 1989 700AS /7mm Rem.Mag. looked at, even though it has never had a problem since that trigger was 'adjusted'.
Peace of mind...

[JeffH]

Having seen this CNBC program and read many of the comments, I couldn't resist adding my own. It is absolutely true that the unsafe handling of the guns in question was in large part the reason behind the tragic consequences, for who in their right mind would be pointing a loaded deer rifle at their child (or their own foot) in any circumstances. The trigger issue shouldn't be downplayed, however, as Mr. Walker (the designer of said trigger) pointed out there were known problems from the outset. If the parts were not made to tolerance there was a chance the gun could go off without touching the trigger! What more do you need to take action? So, I took this to heart and installed Timney triggers in all my 700's. I now have a bagful of triggers and if Remington ever has a trigger "buyback" I am set. If not, at least the rifles are (relatively) safe as Timney uses a different type safety that blocks the trigger. I have, in fact, had an unusual discharge of a 700 that went off while sling-carrying it. Brushing through some alders the gun went off when the safety was tripped forward to "fire" position. When a 300 Mag goes off a foot from your right ear it does get your attention. Luckily the gun was pointed upwards and nobody was hurt but it does scare the bejessus out of you. My point is, even if only 1% of all triggers are affected, and even if they will malfunction only under certain unlikely circumstances, this WILL happen once in a while. Why let it happen to you? By the way, that 300 mag trigger was very dirty from the hunting trip and had been "adjusted" by someone (not me) to be particularly light so that should be a red flag to all.

[Rich/WIS]

I have used M700s since 1966, and they are fine rifles. When this controversy started I followed it and thought it was a lot of BS. Fast forward to opening day in WI this year. My daughter shoots a M700 Classic in 243 that was purchased in 1984, and has not been adjusted in any way. When loading her rifle she closed the bolt and the rifle fired (it has the older safety that has to be off to load). Scared her but she is a safe shooter and the round went into the dirt. She analyzed how she loaded and was sure she did not touch the trigger and even checked her clothing to be sure there was nothing bulging in her pockets that would contact the trigger.

Today I removed the stcok and looked at the trigger, looked clean and no rust. Then I blew it out with solvent and HOLY CRAP, gunge came out like I couldn't believe. Re oiled with REM-OIL and blew off the excess. Did the drop test with safety off., and then with safety on and checked it did not relase the firing pin when disengaged (did this about 8-10 times). All was well.

My daughter now does not trust the rifle (can't say I blame her) and I was going to replace it, but was wondering if I just replaced the trigger with a Timney if I could assure her that it was now reliable. Have these problems ever happened with Timney triggers.

We like the rifle, balance, accuracy and appearance, and would like to keep using it. Anyone have an answer?

[JeffH]

Re. the 243 that malfunctioned--this is one of the problems...dirt. I did replace all my triggers with Timneys at 125 bucks a whack plus gunsmithing work of 80 bucks as each must be fitted properly. The Timney uses a trigger block design that to my knowledge has never had this type of malfunction. It actually can't due to the different design. Two of my triggers were factory-adjusted to 3.5 lbs. and a third one to 22 oz. (it is a target style not a Sportsman). All are crisp with no creep. I trust them totally and I believe the rifles are, if not better than new, at least equal to new. Yes, it is expensive but look at the possible consequences of failure. You 'probably' solved the problem by cleaning, but if there is a part that was manufactured a bit out of tolerance it is still in there. I know I would want it OUT of there.

[Recoil Rob]

I had my 700 SA fire when I took the safety off. I was in AZ javelina hunting and we were setting up for a shot. I took the safety off and the gun fired, never touched the trigger. Could not replicate it though.