need help for first time handloader

[mattjack]

To all:
I want to begin hand loading for my 1889 12 gauge. I am an avid hand loader for pistol and rifle, mostly for my shiloh sharps with BP. I want to use my 1889. I have looked through the posts and seen alot of great load data, but have not seen the step by step data.
1. What is better/economical brass or plastic shells?
2. If brass, do they need full lenght resized every time, or are they fire formed and just need the throat sized to be roll crimped again?
3. After they are charged, what is the significance of the thickness of the wad over the powder? is there a usual standard? do you want to use a 10 gauge wad in a 12 gauge for tight fit?
4. Does the shot have to be in a plastic or paper hull? Where do you get them?
5. the over the shot wad, does that have to be thick enough to take of the void for a brass roll crimp to be tight on?
6. i have all king of presses, but no shotgun press, what is the best way to reload?

I appreciate any info i get...i like to shoot old guns the way there were intended. In my opinion once you have fired an old sharps down range at 500m, see and smell that smoke and wait the 10 seconds to strike the steel target nothing finer than that!

[Researcher]

It really all depends on what you are trying to accomplish with your reloads. Are you looking to recreate period loads or just looking for a safe load to shoot in the old gun. There are plenty of low pressure 12-gauge loads available in the reloading manuals using modern components. The load I've settled on is a Remington STS hull, Remington 209P primer, 16.4 grains of Clays powder, a Remington TGT12S wad, and 7/8 ounce of shot. This is a 1200 fps load at only 6300 psi. I find this load breaks targets great and is very easy on me and my old doubles. I started reloading in the days of Federal paper cases, nitro card and Felton Bluestreak fiber wads. I'm too lazy to go back to that. You should be able to load plenty of shells with the entry level MEC Jr.

[mattjack]

researcher,

Thanks for the great info. Is it ok to shoot the 2 3/4" hulls out of this 1889?

[Researcher]

Most of these old Remington Arms Co. 12-gauge doubles have 2 5/8 inch chambers, and some surviving hang tags say they were targetted with a UMC 2 5/8 inch shell. Other manufacturers back in the day had a policy of holding their chambers 1/8 inch shorter then the intended shell, believing that that 1/8 inch of case mouth extending into the forcing cone cushoned the shot charge and improved patterns. I know this was the method of both Parker Bros. and the A.H. Fox Gun Co. There were some articles by Sherman Bell in The Double Gun Journal showing that shooting shells even 1/4 inch longer then the chamber, didn't significantly increase pressures. I've been shooting 2 3/4 inch shells in my 2 5/8 inch chambered 1914-vintage Ansley H. Fox for 45 years now and my Father shot 2 3/4 inch shells (including Western Super-X, Remington Nitro Express and Federal Hi-Powers) in his 1896-vintage Damascus barrel Remington Model 1894 AE-Grade, from when he got it during WW-II until he quit hunting after the 1988 season.

I don't shoot Damascus or Twist barrel guns myself, so I certainly can't advise anyone else to. That is a decision you have to make yourself. Lots of people do. Come to the Vintage Cup at Pintail Pointe Farms near Queenstown, Maryland, September 23-26, and you will see lots of folks shooting Twist and Damscus guns. If you do, stop by the A.H. Fox Collectors Association booth and chat. I'll be there.

[2shooter]

Hi, I shoot everything from all brass 10ga,12ga.&16ga.blackpowder to IMR PB in paper and plastic cases.Get a Hodgdon 2008 reloading Manual page 41 list low pressure loads.3,400 up
24gm load.

[mattjack]

Thanks guys, i just turned 30 and my peers arent interested in vintage anything but i love the stories and nostaglia of all these arms and ammunition. I have been selling my modern arms and buying vintage arms.

Thanks again

[paul harm]

If you like old time stuff use federal paper shells and roll crimp. Ballistic Products has a roll crimping tool. I use the 10ga tool for 10 and 12ga shells. They also have the best price for black powder - if you deciede to go that way. Circle Fly.com has paper wads. That's where BPs gets theirs from but it's cheaper from CF. Talk to Craig - tell him what you want to do - he'll set you up. The paper hulls are easy to trim to any leangth you want [ plastic a tad more work ] with a 3/4" dowel rod and a single edge razor blade mounted on it at the correct length at about a 15 to 25 degree angle. Nothing looks better than a roll crimp shell. The paper shell stays open better than a plastic shell - makes for easier reloading. Also, a 2 5/8 , 2 1/2 , or even a 2 1/4" shell looks cool. Shoot em once or twice, and when the end gets bad just cut a little more off and use less cushion wad. If you're useing smokeless powder you can go about 10% more because the paper wads don't seal as good as plastic wads. Have any questions email me at harm@blclinks.net - say shotgun shells or it may get deleated. Paul

[paul harm]

Sorry, got a little mix up. Graf and Son or www.grafs.com has the best price on black powder- it's their own at $10.95 a pound. I get 20 to 25 lbs at a time to save on the haz. shipping fee. They also have the roll crimping tool at $29.99. If you're not in a hurry find an old Lee Reloading tool from a gun show or one of the gun auction sites for about $10. Then you won't need a roll crimp tool. I like the Mec tools and don't crimp on the machine for roll crimps or use the machine for star crimps. If useing all brass shell [ from Magteck ] you don't resize or roll the ends. The over shot wad is glued in. For brass shells a 10ga over powder and over shot wad and a 11ga cushion wad is used. The brass shells you can get from Gander Mountain. The brass shells take a pistol primer so you'll have to make a tool to deprime. A finish nail in the end of a dowel rod works. Good luck - Paul