Remington "American Browning"

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Cat955L
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:56 am

Remington "American Browning"

Post by Cat955L »

Hello,

I am new to this forum and am hoping to find information for the Remington produced "American Brownings" of World War II. Specifically, the number of shotguns produced for each gauge (A, B, C, prefixes) and what year of production such serial numbers may indicate.

I have also noticed during my research that there seems to be a number of different engraving patterns along with stock configurations, (straight, pistol, and round knob,) along with plain barrels, vent rib, and solid rib.

Were there any Remington or Browning catalogues produced during this era that may shed light on what was available or if there are any websites that would already have some of this information posted?

Thanks again
Jack71
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Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Jack71 »

There was a thread on this subject recently on Shotgun World: https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 3&t=506764

As you probably know, it is difficult to determine the date of manufacture of these guns from the serial number. They have Remington barrel codes, and these correspond roughly to the date the gun was made, although the barrels could be from an earlier date.

According to Fjestad's Blue Book of Gun Values, there were over 38,000 made in 12 gauge (serials B5000 to B43129), over 14,000 in 16 gauge (A5000-A19450) and more than 11,000 in 20 gauge (C5000 to C16152).

My understanding is production of the American Brownings started in late 1940 and ended in 1947, although very few were made for civilian sale during the time the United States was directly involved in World War II. I have a 1948 Shooters Bible that lists both American and Belgian A5s for sale.

This is an interesting subject for both Remington and Browning collectors.
Cat955L
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:56 am

Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Cat955L »

Thank you very much for your reply and the link to the thread. I just purchased my subscription to the Blue Book of Gun Values based on your information and it was well worth it.

I am hoping to find some literature that provides some descriptions of what options would be available such as stock configurations, barrel types, engraving, etc. I did learn from the Shirley and Vanderlinden book that the barrels will still have the "Browning Arms Company St. Louis Mo" address on them but they will not be stamped "Made in Belgium".

I will be posing a similar request for information on the Browning Collectors website and whatever I find I will post here as well.

Looking forward to an interesting discussion with everyone.
Researcher
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Location: Washington and Alaska

Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Researcher »

From the 1948 Stoeger catalog --
American Browning, 1948 Stoeger page 58.jpeg
American Browning, 1948 Stoeger page 58.jpeg (736.58 KiB) Viewed 2132 times
American Browning, 1948 Stoeger page 59.jpeg
American Browning, 1948 Stoeger page 59.jpeg (554.49 KiB) Viewed 2132 times
Cat955L
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:56 am

Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Cat955L »

Thank you for that page! The puzzle has another valuable piece. Is there any way that you could expand page 58 so that we could read the far right side of the page? My mind is now wondering what is the earliest advertisement we could find for the "American Browning" as this ad from Stoeger appears to be at the end of the Remington contract run around 1948.

So what I have learned so far is that FN in Belgium quite producing the Browning Shotgun around May 1940 time frame when the Germans invaded and that some records indicate that after the Allied forces liberated parts of Europe, FN began production of the Browning shotgun around 1944. Importation of FN produced Brownings to the United States began around 1946-1947. During this same time period, Remington had a contract to produce the "American Made Browning" from around 1940 to 1947-48.

What I noticed from the Stoeger Arms ad that struck me as interesting was that you could have an "American Browning" in 20 gauge as early as the 1940's while FN would not produce a 20 gauge for Browning until 1958.

Do you think that Remington received the contract during this time frame as a default due to their earlier production of the Browning designed shotgun in the early 1900's?

Thanks, and I hope we can put together more information to help fill in the gaps in my knowledge as well as produce a clearer understanding of the "American Browning" of the 1940's.
Researcher
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Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Researcher »

Remington was still producing their JMB designed 5-shot Model 11 and 3-shot Sportsman through 1948, so all they did was differ the decoration and add the magazine cut-off to make the American Brownings.

Over fifty years of American shotgun research, I've found that Stoeger catalogs often lag behind what the actual gun company catalogs were offering, and are not a great research tool. That said, in all that time I've never seen a piece of actual Browning Arms Co. paper covering the Remington produced guns.
Cat955L
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:56 am

Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Cat955L »

Thanks again for the input. I have ordered a couple of catalogs from Cornell Publishing from the 1940's era in hopes of gaining some perspectives and photos. Whatever I find of interest I will post back here.

I also found this topic on the "American Browning" that was discussed in another forum on Shotgun World. (Link posted below) I knew this was not a new topic of discussion for a majority of those well acquainted with the production of the "American Browning" when I posted this thread. Although many people do say that this "American Browning" is not a collectible; I would politely disagree and suggest that it is a historical firearm linking two great firearms manufacturers together during one of the most significant events of world history. While the value may not be significant in terms of dollars it is certainly a significant piece of history.

I look forward to finding some great examples for future shooting/collecting in the 12, 16, and 20 gauge as they will make for a great story as a link from pre-war to post war production of the FN Browning.

Anyone with photos of their "American Browning"???

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 3&t=457808.
You will have to paste in your browser as it would not highlight for a quick link.
Cat955L
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:56 am

Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Cat955L »

Sorry for the adding in the wrong link to the Shotgun World forum. I had copied the link from Jack71 for information for another post and added it back in by mistake.

The link I should have posted was about some information on the "American Browning" 3 Shot.

https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto ... 5&t=480246

Thanks
Cat955L
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:56 am

Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Cat955L »

download/file.php?mode=view&id=5630&sid ... a60d21995a

If this actually shows up as a photo it is an Advertisement from 1949 that still shows the "American Browning" as being available other options. If anyone has some clear photos of the different types of engraving on the receiver that would be great. It appears to me that there were two different engraving styles during the production run.
Attachments
American Browning 1949 Advertisement
American Browning 1949 Advertisement
s-l1600.jpg (303.18 KiB) Viewed 2035 times
ChuckD
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Location: Northern IL

Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by ChuckD »

I don't know if this will be helpful, but I have an American "Browning 3 shot" (marked on the fore end).
It's a 20 ga. S N - C8693. However, it has a Remington vent rib barrel. It is date coded DMM-2= 8/43,
which indicates it is a factory replacement. So not much help in dating it. It also has a poor fitting Remington butt plate. I purchased this years ago from a dealer who said Browning collectors consider it junk!
By the way all Remington American Browning's have matted or sand blasted receiver tops. I find this the easiest way to identify them.
Cat955L
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:56 am

Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Cat955L »

Chuck,

Thanks for your reply! I started picking up a few Brownings a few years ago and I had several opportunities to buy some "American Brownings" at some reasonable prices. I passed on those early purchases but wish now that I had not been so keen to dismiss them. The more I began to study the Browning Auto 5 history; I became interested in all the variations of the Brownings produced since their inception. I picked up a nice "AB" 16 gauge recently in very good condition. Although the finish and fit was not as good as the Belgium models it functioned perfectly and has proved a great source of fun shooting at a reasonable price. That 20 gauge with the 3 shot designation sounds like a real gem. Does your 20 gauge have the round knob stock or the square grip. One day when you tire of it, feel free to give me a call...I might be interested!!! I have also thought along the same lines as you that the easiest way to pick out the "AB" in a rack full of Brownings is the matte finish on the receiver. Can you tell me why the DMM-2=8/43 means it is a replacement barrel. I am not familiar with the Remington designations. If you have time could you send a photo of the "scroll work" engraving on the sides of the receiver. If you can't post it here, you can send it to my email address at : dmdean4@yahoo.com and I will try to post it .

Thanks again!!
Researcher
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Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Researcher »

D = September, MM = 1943, 2 = barrel sold after market, to be fitted by a qualified gunsmith outside the factory.

If the barrel had been fitted at Ilion it would be DMM3, and very likely they would have serial numbered it.
ChuckD
Posts: 179
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Location: Northern IL

Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by ChuckD »

Researcher,
I know the "2" stamp is for a replacement Barrel and assumed it was done by Remington. Your explanation
makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
Cat955L
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:56 am

Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Cat955L »

Hopefully this will post as an attachment of the larger style of scrollwork on the "American Browning" I will try to post another image of the smaller scrollwork most often seen on these particular years.
Attachments
American Browning w larger scrollwork.jpg
American Browning w larger scrollwork.jpg (66.2 KiB) Viewed 1836 times
Cat955L
Posts: 9
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Re: Remington "American Browning"

Post by Cat955L »

Image
American Browning smaller scrollwork
American Browning smaller scrollwork
mail.jpeg (176.88 KiB) Viewed 1833 times
This is an image of the smaller scrollwork on the "American Browning"
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