Explain the designations for the Percussion revolvers?

[Swede68]

I´m a Swedish collector and shooter. My main focus is not Remington revolvers, but I do find them interesting, and when it comes to guns in "shooter" condition (low or no remaining finish but sound mechanical condition) they are the most encountered guns.

I´m confused however, because people seem to be using alternating designations regarding these guns, sometimes the same person may be referring to one gun as a "New Model Army" and another gun as a "1858 Army", not easy for me to know if this meens that they are the same model, or different models.

Here are the designations that I´m aware of (and just off the top of my head):
1858, 1861(?), 1863
Beals, Old Model, New Model
Pocket, Police, Belt Model, Navy, Army

I do know how to see the difference between a Beals and an Old Model, or between an Old Model and a New Model. I also am aware of the transitional models.
I do also understand the difference Between the frame sizes and the calibers.
However, I´m not 100% sure how the years relate to the models, probably a lot of the confusion coming from the "New Model" being referred to as the 1858.

Could someone clear this up for me?

Anders Olsson

[Mike Strietbeck]

I agree with you that most of the confusion in identification comes about from folks using the patent date as a model designation. This allows both the Beals and New Model revolvers to be called an "1858". My preference (so I'll call it the "correct" way) in designating which revolver I'm taling about is "Beals", "Model of 1861", and "New Model".

E. Remington and Sons' firearms manufacturing plant was located in Ilion, New York on the Erie Canal and in the late 1850's the "Powers-That-Be" decided to produce large caliber revolvers to augment the pocket pistols then in production.
The original design for these new revolvers was the brainchild of one Fordyce Beals, a long time designer for the Remingtons. Production began in 1860 and is known today as the Beals Army (.44 caliber) and the Beals Navy (.36 caliber).

It was a six-shot revolver offered in .36 and .44 calibers. The .36 having a slightly smaller frame and shorter barrel than did the .44 caliber version. Beals’ U.S. Patent of September 14, 1858 (#21,478) covered the feature whereby the loading lever retained the cylinder pin. This feature allowed one to carry extra loaded cylinders and to exchange them with spent cylinders in a matter of seconds.

In 1861 another Remington designer, William M. Elliot, decided he could improve on Beals’ design by cutting a groove in the gun’s loading lever thereby allowing the cylinder pin to be drawn forward without lowering the lever (U.S. Patent #33,962 issued December 17, 1861). The new design looked good on paper and in the factory but when it was used in the field it was found that when the piece was fired 3 or 4 times in rapid succession the cylinder pin would work forward and the cylinder would bind or fall out. This could be rather embarrassing in a life or death matter. Some of the 1861 pistols were returned to Remington and a screw was placed in the loading lever groove thus preventing the cylinder pin from working forward. Thereafter the loading lever had to be lowered in order to pull the cylinder pin forward. This model was made in 1861-62 with a total production estimated at around 9,000 revolvers.

It was replaced by the Remington New Model Army, also known as the Model of 1863 Army which retained the earlier 1858 patent date.

Hope this helps,

RemShots
Mike Strietbeck

[Oldfalguy]

For some reason I am not able to get a pm out of the outbox to actually send a pm
so I will just post here

Mike,

I have to tell you this was one of the most succinct explanations of the differences I have ever ready-
Thank you very much.
I have 2 and neither has the screw through the loading lever so they would be Beals or New Army and given one has a S/N of 96,000+ I figure its a New Army though I have no idea about it actual production date. Is there any way to get a factory letter like Colt does? Or did a factory fire take care of that possibility?

[Mike Strietbeck]

Mark,

All (3) of your mesages as well as the new posting came thru. Miracles of modern electronics.

Thanks for the kind words, we all try hard to please.

As far as factory letters, no luck on that one. Records no longer (if ever) exist at Remington concerning shipments of firearms in this time period. the best we've been able to come up with has been as a result of the tremendous effort of Don Ware and Slim Kohler when they searched the U. S. Government archives for civil War contracts and documented the order / receipt data. This was published in Don Ware's book.

thanks again,

Mike Strietbeck

[Swede68]

Thanks Mike!
This was indeed the best and most complete description I´ve ever came across.
As it happens, I just got myself a nice Remington m1861 Navy revolver today. Good to know what to call it!

Does anyone have a picture of the cylinderaxle of the 61 Navy? (closeup of the "head" from different angles if possible). I believe that the axle that is in my gun now is a replacement from a NM (since the head prevents it from sliding forward with the loading lever closed). Though it does look like it´s been on the gun forever. I have a spare (newly made) cylinder axle for a Remington Navy, and I am considering turning it to something that more closely resembles the original axle. But I do not want to do anything to the axle that is on the gun now, since it is clearly antique even if it wasn´t on the gun to begin with.

Also, the serialnumber is 21249, this meens that it was made in 1863, right? Is this number "too high" to be a m1861, is it possibly a "transitional" model with the old loading lever but the new axle? It bears no "New Model" on the barreladress.
No use in converting the spare axle to an "old model" axle if the gun never came with such an axle.

Best regards!
Anders Olsson