Cartridge Jam Model 14

[CWarmouth]

As you may know, I have been reloading ammo for my son's Model 14 25 R, thanks to the help from many of you. Today I went out and squeezed of a few rounds. Good News!... The gun didn't blow up or anything! I shot 8 rounds, loading them one at a time. Then I put three in. The first one chambered fine, but did not eject. I pulled back on the fore grip and it just stopped and stuck. The empty cartridge was just hanging by the collet or whatever it's called. I was able to get it out but the next bullet is firmly jammed in the bottom of the chamber and nothing will move. Any ideas on how to get it out, and what may have caused the jam?

[Wulfman]

As you may know, I have been reloading ammo for my son's Model 14 25 R, thanks to the help from many of you. Today I went out and squeezed of a few rounds. Good News!... The gun didn't blow up or anything! I shot 8 rounds, loading them one at a time. Then I put three in. The first one chambered fine, but did not eject. I pulled back on the fore grip and it just stopped and stuck. The empty cartridge was just hanging by the collet or whatever it's called. I was able to get it out but the next bullet is firmly jammed in the bottom of the chamber and nothing will move. Any ideas on how to get it out, and what may have caused the jam?

Has that cartridge been fired? Is it the empty case stuck in the chamber? If so, I'd attempt to use a cleaning rod down the barrel and try to "thump" it out of the chamber.
I don't know if you have swollen cases or a rusty chamber or just what, but after you get the case out, I'd be looking into the chamber with a bore light or something, to see what the problem is.
If that cartridge has NOT been fired.......let us know.


Den

[14carbine]

Hello, i have had this happen with one of my model 14's..at the end of the magazine is the brush guard, its held in place buy a slot-head screw (regular ) remove the screw & then the brush guard. turn the gun so the mag sring will slide out & the shells should come out too, & i bet this takes care of your jam. (when this happend to me it sure feels like its "REALLY" jammed in there but removing the spring takes the pressure off.. then put the spring & brush guard back and you should be good to go.. these model 14's like there ammo shorter.. if its to long these type jams happen..try westernscounger for ammo. best of luck with your great gun in a great caliber..

[CWarmouth]

Thanks guys.

14Carbine: I took out the brush guard and spring. It's still jammed. The action will not move at all. Any other thoughts?

Den: The round that I fired is not the problem. It came out. Let me see if I can explain better. I loaded 3 rounds in the gun. I shot one. I pulled back on the foregrip to eject/chamber. It pulled back fine, but just "locked" there in the farthest rearward position. The chamber "door" was open at this point of course. The fired cartridge was hanging there on the shellholder thing and the next round was jammed below it, unable to come up and chamber. (I guess I made a mistake in saying that it was stuck in the chamber. I guess I should say it's stuck in the action). I was able to get the fired round out fairly easily but the next round is till jammed in there and nothing will move.

There is no rust in the gun. It is in excellent shape. The cartridges were all resized in Hornady dies on my RCBS press.. I do believe part of the problem might be as 14Carbine says... a tad too long. I'm sure the problem has something to do with my reloading. Factory ammo from Buffalo Arms works beautifully in this gun.

I'll post a video this afternoon.

[CWarmouth]

Here is the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3zL0VoktWk

I don't think the ammo is too long. I am using 86 gr bullets and the overall length is much, much shorter than a factory loaded NOS 25 Rem w/ a 117 g bullet. Could it be too short?

Would I gain anything by doing Step 1 in the disassembly process in the manual listed as a sticky on this forum?

[nambujim]

Carl!

Tom Hemphill contacted me pleading your case and telling me that you are a "good guy" and need some help with a cartridge jam on your Model 14. Wow, hard to believe that a cartridge has locked up a Model 14 like a bank vault but it happens so often that I get a couple of these every month into my shop (where I work only on these guns).

Almost all of these situations are caused by ammunition or cartrdige stops but then it doesn't take much is the way of debris to lock up one of these actions.
My first suggestion would be to remove the stock because from your video the action has not fully cycled and there maybe something impeding it, if that does not help attempt to loosen the action bar screw. That screw might be a bit tough to get out if the cartridge is locked up against it but in some cases I have found that it will free the stop from the cartridge and release the action.

I am just offering up a couple of guesses here but since the action has not fully cycled (which is the reason the fired case did not eject) there are all sorts of possibilities.

Kindest regards!

Jim

[nambujim]

Carl!

Of course I meant to loosen and the remove the "action bar cover" screw which would then release the "stop" and that might free up the action. Years ago I found it best never to test the feeding of these guns with live cartridges and then only one at a time, then two! I think you will also notice that rounds that have passed through the loading mechinism of the Model 14 and then ejected come out considerably less than pristene.

Regards!

Jim

[CWarmouth]

Thank you Jim,
That was awfully nice of Tom to persuade you! I hope to meet that guy some day. He has been a fun guy to correspond with!
I am very nervous about taking this thing apart but I will procede with caution.
Thanks for all the advice.
Carl

[CWarmouth]

No luck...

I tried step one but it seems that something is preventing the stock from coming off. It comes down about 3/4" and just stops. Several attempts were made but I don't want to get too rough with it. I removed the action bar cover screw to the point that it almost fell out and that didn't seem to have any effect.

Does anyone have any other ideas?

I'm getting a little discouraged here as gun season is coming and my son isn't going to get any practice in. I don't see any easy solution here. Does anyone know a gunsmith in Alabama or Georgia that knows model 14's?

Thanks,
Carl

[nambujim]

Carl!

I am in North Carolina...............where are you?

Go back and remove the action bar cover screw, slide the action bar slightly forward, and see if you can get the cartridge stop out.......it should exit, if it won't then something is binding it up. Give that a try, you won't hurt anything!
Also, if you got the stock bolt out there should not be anything getting in the way of the stock coming off.................sometimes on hook & lever guns the hooky part can hang up back in the stock but you should with a little wiggling work it free. Isn't this fun, I get to do this type of thing every day and you will be amazed what will bind these guns up and it doesn't take much. I think you are afraid of hurting it, they will take a lot of abuse and then go back together just fine. I do prefer customers leave before I start beating on magazine tubes with my rubber mallet.

I would love for you to be able to ship it to me but I hardly think UPS would get excited about it.

Jim

[CWarmouth]

Jim, you are right. I am afraid of hurting it or getting it apart and not being able to put it back together correctly. I'm also afraid of those two live rounds in there! I am definitely taking your advice on loading two or three with no powder and a dead primer for cycling in the future.

I am about 1.5 hours south of Atlanta. What part of NC are you in? If worse comes to worse I might be able to drive up there one day.

Do you restore guns too? Rebluing etc?

[nambujim]

Carl!

I am in Charlotte.....................so that makes me about 5 hours from you.

I do modest restoration and reblue using a special cold blue application that looks very close to the original on the old M14's. Work on wood is hardly my specialty and my "stock guy" who was the best in the southeast unfortunately for everyone in the area passed away last week.

If you wish to attempt to bring it to me I would think the best was would be for you to come over I-20 and up I-77 but me being the dedicated and wonderful fellow that I am could meet you part way. Then bring it back to my shop, fix it, and return it to you via UPS.................or car. I don't usually provide such "on hands" service so I am going to send the bill to Tom Hemphill
who is about to get snowed upon today

I can fix your problem and leave the gun a whole lot cleaner than it is right now. Advise!

Jim

[CWarmouth]

Hello All,
I'd really like to get this issue resolved at home if possible, but as you can see from this new video, I am having some problems. Please let me know what you think!
Carl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pg8L94kNmVQ

[nambujim]

Carl!
As they said in "Cool Hand Luke" what we have here is a failure to communicate. I said to remove the "stock" like remove the butt plate, get a real long screwdriver, get up inside the buttstock hole with it, and remove the stock bolt, then pull the stock off the lower receiver.

You will never clear the action by dropping the lower receiver into the position, put it back in place..............and remove the stock......not the lower receiver.
Also when you removed the action bar cover screw, did the cartridge stop come out of the slot..........it should have..............it looks from the video that it may be missing which would have allowed multiple rounds into your action. Please let me know about the cartridge stop (little silver part shaped sort of like an "L" or "T".

If you don't have the "stop" the rifle will never feed without jamming, did it feed before?

Jim Peterson (nambujim@carolina.rr.com)
email me if you like and/or I will give you my phone number.

[CWarmouth]

Jim,
In order to stop hogging the board with my problems, and to avoid embarrassing myself any further, I'm going to email you instead.
Thank you!