Iding a Rolling Blcok

Topics related to Pre - 1898 Remington Rifles
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Bill Allen
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:30 pm

Iding a Rolling Blcok

Post by Bill Allen »

Hi all, I have a rolling block I am trying to ID I posted earlier but here are the pictures.
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tjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:15 pm

Re: Iding a Rolling Blcok

Post by tjack »

Your action started life as what is known as the Transformed Rifle in .58 caliber made from surplus Civil War rifle parts mated to a Remington action. This is evident in your 5th photo where the sides of the breech block are rounded to accommodate the larger diameter of the .58 cal. cartridge. It (yours) was probably one of those sent to France during the Franco-Prussian War, 1870, and surplused out after the war. Many of these were rebarreled in Belgium to .43 Spanish caliber, a much more resalable product than the obsolete .58 caliber. The markings on the bottom of your barrel are Belgian inspector/proof markings.
Bill Allen
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:30 pm

Re: Iding a Rolling Blcok

Post by Bill Allen »

Thank you very much. Considering the time sorta amazing travel half way around the world and land back here Both of my other two rollingblocks have a 6 on the bottom of the barrel with one havinga 7 sitting perpindicular to the six. Thats all they chamber a 45 70 (lose) or a 43 spanish. Casted them and seem to be tampered chamber instead of a forcing cone. ANy ideas? Thanks Bill
tjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:15 pm

Re: Iding a Rolling Blcok

Post by tjack »

Bill,
As to the markings on the bottom of the barrel, the only ones that have significance to us today is the 10.6 which indicates bore diameter in millimeters for the 11 mm Spanish cartridge. On Belgian rebarreled Egyptian Rolling Blocks in the Egyptian caliber, they stamped 11.1 for mm. I read your initial post when you posted it but, like you, I'm getting on in years so didn't remember it. The Spanish in their own rifles and some rifles in their colonies converted lots of rifles to the Reformado cartridge. Talking with Geo. Layman many years ago I was of the opinion that, due to the pretty huge differences in fired cases in my various Reformado rifles and carbines, that the conversion was done "in the field" rather than at an arsenal. It seemed that no two chambers were the same. The Reformado case is just a blown out Spanish case so that it can take a larger diameter bullet; the rim and the base are basically the same. All my Reformados are fired with Spanish cases fire formed to their chamber. For subsequent loadings, I neck size with a .45 Colt die or maybe a seat die for a .44 Spl., etc. But, since it has been 140 some years since these were rebarreled, there has been a lot of time for someone to do something weird to the chamber. The best bet would be to make a chamber cast to determine what the measurements are. Good luck!
Tom
Bill Allen
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:30 pm

Re: Iding a Rolling Blcok

Post by Bill Allen »

Thanks for the reply The two rollingblocks were cast and are the same so doubt if it was in the field stuff. Theyll chamber a 45 70 (lose) as well as a 43 spanish although rather then stepped like a spanish these are tapered from the area of the shoulder on a 43 spanish to the rifling It would have helped if there was any markings other then the 6 and 7 on the barrel. Read an aritcle where they coned the chambers on some danish rifles to shoot 45 70 but again no markings danish or otherwise. Guess I'll keep at it, have any books on rolling blocks I can find but as you know not an easy subject. I'll try and post the numbers on the casting since Thanks again Bill
marlinman93
Posts: 379
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:47 pm

Re: Iding a Rolling Blcok

Post by marlinman93 »

I would hazard a guess that's an early Husqvarna Rolling Block made on one of the Remington built receivers. The earliest versions weren't made in Sweden, as I think I read where Remington sold them 10,000 receivers in the first run for Husqvarna to build guns on?
You need to do a chamber casting to really know what it's chambered for. Dropping various cartridges in these early guns is futile as Remington made so many chamberings in cartridges close to their own .44-77 BN. So who knows what it is, or if it might have been monkeyed with in the last 140 plus years?
Bill Allen
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:30 pm

Re: Iding a Rolling Blcok

Post by Bill Allen »

As far as the barrel goes it has the fleur de lis on the left side by the action on the right is the 4 sided flower? I've seen mentioned before. There is a small stamping on the left action but even under a magnifying lens i can't make out. Under the barrel is 7 perpendicular to the barrel on top of a six. Both guns have the same markings as well as the chamber casts are the same. I will post a drawing of them when I get done it. Thanks for the answer it's much appreciated Bill
tjack
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:15 pm

Re: Iding a Rolling Blcok

Post by tjack »

According to Geo. Layman in his "Remington Military Rolling Block Rifles of the World" the fleur d ' lis is found on Spanish rifles and is a symbol if the Spanish Royal Family and the House of Bourbon. He also says that the 1st contract for Spain went to Cuba and was the only contract that should have a concave breech block. Your receiver is definitely that of the Transformed model as it has the "wings" on the breech block and the lower tang is longer than the upper tang. So, it was originally in .58 caliber. Somehow, it made it to Belgium where it was re barreled to 11 mm Spanish caliber. All the markings on the bottom of the barrel had significance to those working in the shop at the time of re barreling.
Bill Allen
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2021 6:30 pm

Re: Iding a Rolling Blcok

Post by Bill Allen »

Thanks I apologize for the confusion the rifle in the picts was I believe identified. The other two I had mentioned were not there was no pictures posted for them just the id markings. I will start a new inquiry when I post the drawing for the cast I made. I do believe the two are spanish maybe the cuban ones. But we'll see after I post some new stuff on them but don't be afraid to jump in with your opinions someone has the answer of what these two are. Thanks again Bill
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