Another ID Please

Topics related to Pre - 1898 Remington Rifles
M36
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:16 pm

Another ID Please

Post by M36 »

I picked this up this morning and after lightly cleaning this up with 0000 dry steel wool, it seems this rifle came to life. It had what seemed like a light coating of rust on it, but the steel wool seemed to polish the barrel very nicely. Im guessing this is a #1 but here is the info.

The barrel is 26 3/4", "E. Remington & Sons", 32 on the barrel (32RF), heavy, Im guessing close to 8 lbs. The top of the barrel as you can see in the photo's was drilled for a scope at some time. Both sides of the stock were decorated with lead possibly in the shape of the piece on the left side. I was told the extractor is broken. And has a small hairline on the stock near the receiver on the left side. The dates on the side are: May 3, 1864, May 7, June 11, Nov 12, Dec 24, Dec 3 ?, 1872 and Dec 9, 1873. Serial number on the bottom matches the one on the barrel 103XX. The barrel although dirty seems in pretty good shape.

I hope you enjoy the photo's! If you need more info or photo's let me know.

Im curious to the age and the model and any other info that may help learn more about this.

Thank you

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M36
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Another ID Please

Post by M36 »

Got an email from Remington today. it said this is a Model 1 1/2 Sporting Rifle manufactured between 1869-1887.
Dick Hosmer
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:15 pm
Contact:

Re: Another ID Please

Post by Dick Hosmer »

Looks very nice!

I am a big fan of fine steel wool, but I'd be leery of using it dry.

Another technique, for flat hard surfaces, but only after a lot of practice on a junker, is the careful scraping (never allow blade to cut) with a razor blade, kept sloppy wet with solvent and changed often. You do have to pick your fight, but there is a degree of light 'pitting' which this process will completely remove, without affecting the finish.
M36
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Another ID Please

Post by M36 »

Thank you for the reply!!

I was leary of the dry steel wool also so I tried it out on another slightly rusted gun I picked up. The OOOO steel wool at first, I could feel the roughness of the rust. After it worked it off, I could feel the smoothness of the finish under the SW. I would tap the rust out and fine bits of the SW would fall away. To my amazement, it didnt do anything to the finish and in my opinion seemed to polish it.

For my first RB, Im happy.
JimMill
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 8:26 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: Another ID Please

Post by JimMill »

Your rifle is a #1 sporting rifle not a #1 1/2. The easiest way to tell the difference is the #1 has the sliding extractor with a limit screw on the left side of the action like the one in your photo. The model 1 1/2 has a rotary extractor with no screw.

Jim
M36
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Another ID Please

Post by M36 »

Thats interesting Jim thank you for the info. I was wondering while looking at the RB parts site. I didnt know that #1's were made in 32 RF. Looking at my Blue Book the 1 1/2's were made btwn 1898-1897, but the #1's were made 1868-1886. And I just found the line that say's subtract 25% for rim fire.
Rider
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:23 am

Re: Another ID Please

Post by Rider »

M36,
I see that your No.1 appears to have a fully functional beech front sight on it. I would love to find that same sight for my No.1 as mine is missing the ring and post. These old guns just have a feel and balance that is not achieved in modern firearms. Good find.
Rider
Floop
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:29 am

Re: Another ID Please

Post by Floop »

What you have there is a #1 Sporting Rifle. Those are getting to be very rare. Please take good care of it. Mine was in junk condition when I found it. It was a .38 rimfire, probably .38 Long RF. After 18 months and a couple thousand dollars it now shoots .38 spc and .357 Mag. This what it looks like:

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If you want any restoration work done on your rifle contact Jim Dubell at Delta Gun Shop. He did the work on mine. Reproduction wood can be bought from Treebone Carving in NM. Be sure to tell them yours is a sporter. There is a difference in the receiver thickness between a military #1 and a sporter #1.
Floop
M36
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 6:16 pm

Re: Another ID Please

Post by M36 »

I wasnt really sure what I was getting when I bought this. Now Im glad I did. Does restoration improve the value of the gun or detract from it? That sure is a sexy rifle you have Floop.

Would anyone venture a ball park value of this?
Floop
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:29 am

Re: Another ID Please

Post by Floop »

M36 wrote:I wasnt really sure what I was getting when I bought this. Now Im glad I did. Does restoration improve the value of the gun or detract from it? That sure is a sexy rifle you have Floop.

Would anyone venture a ball park value of this?
In my estimation you have a lot going for you with your rifle.

First of all, yours is pristine, in that it hasn't had any shade tree restoration done to it. It has a nice patina that is authentic for its age. It's pretty much original with the exceptions of the inlay in the butt stock and the tapped holes for the scope. It even has traces of the original case hardening on the receiver. I would be very hesitant to touch it at all other than some very gentle cleaning. Be very careful about removing any slight rusting or pitting. It could lower the value of the rifle. Mine was in such poor condition when I got it that it didn't have any value except as parts. My forestock was missing. The right side of the butt stock had been burned away in a cabin fire. The barrel looked like a sewer pipe on the inside. And the exterior had been steel wooled down to bare metal by some well meaning relative at some point in history. I would not have restored mine if it had been in the condition yours was in. What made it worth the $3000 that I put into mine was that it was bought new by my great grandfather.

Second, like mine, yours is an original sporter. There are 1000 military, and military conversions (with various degrees of success) out there for every true sporter. But none of those have the slightly narrower receiver that a true sporter has. Also, the #1 tended to be made in larger calibers, like 45-70, not the smaller ones (mine was a now somewhat rare .38 Long rimfire, I think), so yours is somewhat more rare than most. I have no idea of the value, but just a guess on yours is about $1500 on the low end, and maybe $2500 on the top end. Could be more, or could be less. It's just a guess. But what you have there would be very hard to find if you had to replace it. Go to Gun Broker and look around. You'll notice that anything close to what you have is very expensive and very rare. I can't over-emphasize that a No.1 Sporter is very hard to find and that people actually try to machine military receivers down to sporter specs to make them. Also, I personally have never seen a No.1 in .32 RF.

Please do consult with a real rolling block expert before attempting any significant cleanup. You could shave a lot of value off the rifle by well meant cleanup efforts. Good luck and enjoy!
Floop
Floop
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:29 am

Re: Another ID Please

Post by Floop »

Floop wrote:
M36 wrote:I wasnt really sure what I was getting when I bought this. Now Im glad I did. Does restoration improve the value of the gun or detract from it? That sure is a sexy rifle you have Floop.

Would anyone venture a ball park value of this?
In my estimation you have a lot going for you with your rifle.

First of all, yours is pristine, in that it hasn't had any shade tree restoration done to it. It has a nice patina that is authentic for its age. It's pretty much original with the exceptions of the inlay in the butt stock and the tapped holes for the scope. It even has traces of the original case hardening on the receiver. I would be very hesitant to touch it at all other than some very gentle cleaning. Be very careful about removing any slight rusting or pitting. It could lower the value of the rifle. Mine was in such poor condition when I got it that it didn't have any value except as parts. My forestock was missing. The right side of the butt stock had been burned away in a cabin fire. The barrel looked like a sewer pipe on the inside. And the exterior had been steel wooled down to bare metal by some well meaning relative at some point in history. I would not have restored mine if it had been in the condition yours was in. What made it worth the $3000 that I put into mine was that it was bought new by my great grandfather.

Second, like mine, yours is an original sporter. There are 1000 military, and military conversions (with various degrees of success) out there for every true sporter. But none of those have the slightly narrower receiver that a true sporter has. Also, the #1 tended to be made in larger calibers, like 45-70, not the smaller ones (mine was a now somewhat rare .38 Long rimfire, I think), so yours is somewhat more rare than most. I have no idea of the value, but just a guess on yours is about $1500 on the low end, and maybe $2500 on the top end. Could be more, or could be less. It's just a guess. But what you have there would be very hard to find if you had to replace it. Go to Gun Broker and look around. You'll notice that anything close to what you have is very expensive and very rare. I can't over-emphasize that a No.1 Sporter is very hard to find and that people actually try to machine military receivers down to sporter specs to make them. Also, I personally have never seen a No.1 in .32 RF.

Please do consult with a real rolling block expert before attempting any significant cleanup. You could shave a lot of value off the rifle by well meant cleanup efforts. Good luck and enjoy!
And BTW, should you find that you really would like to restore your rifle (unlikely), it can be made shootable with a barrel liner or perhaps just rechambered, or even with the barrel drilled and re-rifled, and if done properly can handle modern cartridges like .38 Spc and .357 Mag. That's what we did with mine. It's chambered for .357 Mag and of course, shoots .38 Spc as well. But mine was re-heat treated and thoroughly reworked with a new small diameter centerfire firing pin installed in the breech block. The guy who did the metal work on mine was Jim Dubell at Delta Gun Shop in Colville, WA. He's a custom rifle builder and a rolling block expert.
Floop
Floop
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:29 am

Re: Another ID Please

Post by Floop »

Rider wrote:M36,
I see that your No.1 appears to have a fully functional beech front sight on it. I would love to find that same sight for my No.1 as mine is missing the ring and post. These old guns just have a feel and balance that is not achieved in modern firearms. Good find.
Rider
You might try Lee Shaver Gunsmithing in Lamar, MO. I recently bought a new globe sight for my rifle from him. Be aware that the actual dovetail width on the No.1 Sporter is .465", not the standard .375", and not even the .450" that will fit most Sharps rifles. Lee doesn't advertise the .465" dovetail front sights because they are so rare. You have to call and ask him about it.
Floop
Yellowhouse
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:43 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Another ID Please

Post by Yellowhouse »

Funny, I see lots of sporting #1's in rf caliber...especially .32. In fact, I see half dozen of them for everyone in a buffalo caliber but maybe thats a reflection of the market. I do know that the 32 rf must have had a big following with the target crowd as evidenced by the numbers fitted with beach front, RR rear, and set triggers. Often, these rifles also wear fitted with the rocky mtn type buckhorn as shown. Why both sights I don't know but a lot of rifles had them.

I just sent one off in that configuration to be converted to 50-70 since it had little collector value otherwise. It does have a set trigger but someone cut the RR sight off long ago. A friend had a 32 converted that, like yours, had the heavy barrel but it was 34 in long! Talk about a gamer!!!

Incidentally, yours had the RR at one time as evidenced by the two holes forward of the receiver. I assume this is what you'd call a type 2 sight that just screwed to the barrel. The earlier one had one screw and was fit into a dovetail. MVA makes repops of both sights.

Incidentally if you have enough patience heres a method the Samurai collectors use to remove rust from blades. Soak the area in clove oil but I bet a combo of ATF fluid and gum turpentine or Kroil would work too! :wink: Then take a piece of bone or antler and start scrubbing with the edges. Resoak and do it again and again. Takes lots of effort but these guys won't accept any other method and it leaves the patina pretty well alone.
admin
Site Admin
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Re: Another ID Please

Post by admin »

JefferiyTove wrote:Please make this section of the forum permit uploading attachments, eh?
What does that mean, you upload an attachment it isn't going anywhere.
Dick Hosmer
Posts: 164
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Re: Another ID Please

Post by Dick Hosmer »

Admin - I believe we have a troll here. See his meaningless reply to the 1885 Lee cutoff question below.
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