1889 Coach Gun Indicators?

[Triboater44]

Hi, I Have a Question on my 1889 Double 12. First of all the serial # is 101991, which matches on all parts. Grade 5 (without engraving of any kind). Nice stock, and fine Damascus barrels. Barrels are 20 1/8" long which appears to be factory done? Pellet counts are marked #46 & #42 which seems higher than most. Would this indicate a short barrel when tested? I've read that grades 4 and above were custom made orders, but not sure of the date at which it was manufactured. Any information would be appreciated, Thank You.

Sorry had problems uploading pictures, view pictures at this link.
http://s1295.photobucket.com/user/Tribo ... 0Remington

[dieNusse1]

Your 1889 was made in 1900. During 1900 Remington ended the S/N block at about 105000 and then began again at about 200000 and continued with the 200000 block until production ended in 1910.

Your barrels are stamped grade 3 as they should be as they are damascus steel. The grade stamping on the water table of the action body is located to the left of the S/N. From your pictures it is a bit unclear but appears to be a 5. It should also should be a 3 as there is no engraving. Are you sure it's not a 3 which might be disguised as a 5 because of pitting, wear or some other cause?

As to barrel length -- 30 and 32" were offered although Remington would build to order. As to pellet count -- both barrels were between improved modified and full as they left the factory. You should be able to measure the bore to determine if they are still original or cylinder if shortened.

[Triboater44]

The picture showing the grade 5 is a little unclear, but I, and several others have checked and double checked the number. With a magnifying glass, there is no pitting,or unclear questionable marks. It is definitely a number 5. With the absence of any engraving is still a big question,but i guess on a special order this was possible. As far as the barrel dimensions,what do you think the diameter would be,with a 20 1/8"barrel? OH and thanks for reply! Have a great day.

[dieNusse1]

As for choke -- a cylinder bore would measure about 0.729" while an improved modified should measure about 0.709 - 0.704". Unless your barrels have been shortened AND rechoked you should be able to determine whether the barrel length is original.

As for the 5 stamped on the water table -- one of the many mysteries found with Remington SxS's. Maybe it started being a 5 but never completed? Don't know when in the process that the grade was assigned and stamped. Maybe a worker made an error? ??? Maybe someone else in forum land has a better answer.

The other factor that comes into play is that I would suspect that a better grade of damascus being used for a grade 5 but????

[Triboater44]

Well, i measured both barrels, and now i'am lost. Both barrels measured .7344, which is 47/64" or 1/64" less than 3/4". I have no idea, what a potential customer would have wanted/not wanted in a shotgun that may have been purchased as a coach/guard gun. I maybe holding a permanent mystery. Such is life. Thank you for your info.,and if you have any other ideas please let me know. ed. P.s. I sure wish there factory records for special order shotguns!

[dieNusse1]

Well it would appear that your barrel has been shortened. A good smith can refinish the muzzle as good as the factory.

As far as I know Remington did not make a "coach" gun.

[Researcher]

The gun pictured has no features of a Grade 5. The wood, the checkering pattern and the quality of the Damascus barrels all say Grade 3. Remington Arms Co. never catalogued their Hammer Double Barrel Shotgun with barrels shorter than 30-inch in 10-gauge and 28-inch in 12- and 16-gauges. I'm 99.9% sure in my mind that those barrels were whacked aftermarket and that the gun left Ilion with longer tightly choked barrels.

[Triboater44]

I know exactly what your saying. I just can't understand the number 5 stamped on the water table. I went so far as to let two coin collectors examine it. They could find absolutely nothing to indicate that the number had been altered. I guess it could have been stamped incorrectly before leaving the factory. I guess i'll have to live with that. Thank you all for your help,i'll just hang it on the wall,after all it is pretty cute with those short barrels. Look out Doc Holliday! here i come!

[2shooter]

The grade number was stamped at the back of receiver just in front of the standing breech not out front. Is there a number 5 on the forend iron? I think it is assembly number.I also looked at the picture of muzzle end barrels they have been cut off.