New to the form question about 1894 doubles

[Don Doubles]

I'm new to the form but not to Remington 1894. I'm looking to see how many of you have a 12 gauge
built on the small 16 gauge frame, I know of only 2, the one I have and one other, they are both A models.
Both of these A model are in the 12xxxx number range

Don

[Researcher]

With no surviving records, the number built on the lighter frame is impossible to know. I've handled a goodly number over the last 50 years, but I've never owned one. I've never had my hands on one in really high condition. One could postulate that with the North American nimrods tendency to use the heaviest loads available, that the survival rate of these lighter weight guns is lower than the heavier guns.

[dieNusse1]

I had a question about that as well. I tried to post it on the forum several days ago but it seems to have not gone through.

Anyway, I have several '94's and 1900's - all 12's. One 1900 (KED - 1910 production) is smaller than the rest - about 1/8" narrower across both the water table and bolsters. It also weighs about a pound less.

In addition, it has a diamond shaped spacer(?) on the hammer pivot pin which is well made and appears to be original to the gun. This part is not shown on any parts listing that I've ever seen.

It's nice and tight and has been my favorite gun and has brought home the meat over the years. I've always shot BP but I think I'l load up some low pressure SP (<5000 psi) rounds and give that a try. Beats my 870 in all respects.

I discussed this with Charles Semmer several years ago but we couldn't come up with an answer. At that time I don't think he was aware of any "lite" '94's or 1900's as there is no mention of these in his book that I can recall.

[Brownmw]

I have a small frame 12ga 1894 also in the 12XXXX range. I've had it about 2-years and am looking forward to shooting it soon for the first time. It needed a replacement stock and some other work when I bought it.

[Don Doubles]

I have a small frame 12ga 1894 also in the 12XXXX range. I've had it about 2-years and am looking forward to shooting it soon for the first time. It needed a replacement stock and some other work when I bought it.

What length are your barrels and how are they choke, what does it weight
Is it a A grade and what type of barrel does it have

Don

[dieNusse1]

Well, now we have established that "lite" 12's were made for both A grade '94's and late production 1900's. Anyone out there have or know of a '94 lite 12 of higher grade or earlier 1900 production?

BrownWM -- on another matter -- have you restocked your '94? My 1900 has a replacement stock and I'd like to replace it with one that is a bit more correct. The question is -- the vertical relief slots cut into the end of the stock that allow room for the hammers to cock appear to be spaced too wide for the narrow action body. The problem is that when bringing the wood even with the metal, the slots might become exposed. The only solution would be to leave the wood proud of the action body (not correct) or have a stock specially semi-inletted as the off-the-shelf stocks seem to be made for the wider action.

Any comments?

[Brownmw]

Don
My 1894 is an "A" grade with 26" Barrels choked Mod & Full the Barrels are Damascus, It was restocked with an original 1894 stock which was from a standard frame gun.

During the stock fitting it was trimmed down to match the frame sides and was NOT left proud. It was recommended after fitting that I have it glass bedded but I have not had that done yet. Possibly the recommendation was due to the fact that there isn't much wood left on the sides. I also had the top lever spring replaced, (it had a cobbled up spring when it bought it but was not correct to the gun- the replacement is as original).

All in all it's in great condition the bores are mirror, outside the barrels are in good condition - Damascus very clearly visible. Trigger pull is heavy (both measured at about 7# pull weight) Has the firing pins independent of the hammers. As I said I haven't fired it yet but am looking forward to that soon.

[dieNusse1]

Good to hear your stock replacement went well. In my case I have a semi-inletted stock which I don't think will work because the sides will be soooooo thin. It won't go to waste as I have another restock project.

I did contact a stock maker (macongunstocks.com) and they have both sizes. I assume other makers have the same offerings.

Remington doubles are excellent but that top lever spring is a bummer as I've had to replace several!

As for your '94, according to Semmer's book, the shortest barrel offered was 28". Of course Remington would build to order so your's may not have been shortened. Check your choke to see if they match the stamped choke markings or are now cylinder bore.

Have fun. My "lite" 1900 is my favorite long gun and it's a ball to shoot BP but messy to clean. Low pressure SP rounds less than 5000 psi should be safe but double check your barrels first.

[roundtop]

I have a CE ? 12 no grade stamp, which has the wide shallow cut through the middle of the water table and is 1/16 inch narrower across the sides than my DE 12. Across the bolsters is the same width. 90 plus percent finish. Don't know if this is what you call a lite or not. This 2 barrel set made for a bird hunter with no 1 barrel cyl & imp cyl, no 2 is mod & mod. Made in 1894. I have not shown this to Charlie Semmer yet.

[Brownmw]

Roundtop ? you have an ejector gun? You say no grade stamp? are you basing the grade on engraving? What are the barrel lengths for each set?

[Don Doubles]

I have a CE ? 12 no grade stamp, which has the wide shallow cut through the middle of the water table and is 1/16 inch narrower across the sides than my DE 12. Across the bolsters is the same width. 90 plus percent finish. Don't know if this is what you call a lite or not. This 2 barrel set made for a bird hunter with no 1 barrel cyl & imp cyl, no 2 is mod & mod. Made in 1894. I have not shown this to Charlie Semmer yet.

Roundtop
The early 16 gauge were build on a 12 gauge frame with firing pins holes around 1 1/16" center to center.
The 16 gauge frame were started until the late 1898 to 1900, the earliest 16 gauge frame I seen was made in 1900. The 16 gauge frame firing pin holes are 1" center to center. I have 2 1894 B grades made
in 1895, one with 28" barrels has a water table that is .051 narrower than the one with 30" barrels

[roundtop]

My CE ? double does not fit any of the doubles in Charlies book or any I have seen. The iron on forearm is engraved like a B grade. Remington Arms is stamped on sides of action like B but this is where B ends. Remington is framed in a double lined rectangle with scroll engraving on all four sides. Also scroll engraved behind the bolsters. Bolsters are scroll engraved as is the breech of no 1 barrel. It looks like the Rem & address is engraved on no 1 barrel but no marks on no 2 other than 2 & ser no and usual letters and numbers. Also no 2 has no engraving. There is also a hunting dog on trigger guard. Checkering on fore arm is better than most C's but not as good as a D. Both barrels are 30 inch, Etoille damascus which is usual for a C. Has a Silver pad. This is a low ser no, first year gun so possible Remington had not made up their mind on how to finish them and may also be what the customer ordered. Does any one know why some of these 1894 guns have narrower frames? Is it just the lower serial number guns or was Remington trying to shave off a few ounces?

[Don Doubles]

If you live in the Denver area you need to go by and see Charles. Maybe this shotgun is a salesman
sample to show all the different designs Remington did. Do all of the serial number match
Remington made three gauges on the same frame size, first was the 12 and 10 gauge and then the 16,
all parts were hand- fitted to each other . Latter on they made the 16 gauge frame.

[roundtop]

Yes Brownmw, it is an ejector gun. Throws them about 10 feet and close together. I live in Texas but usually see Charles Semmers in Denver each May. Usually take up any new ones I do not think he has recorded. I believe mine is probably an early CE. 3 digit ser # under 200 on all the major parts that I can see. Have not taken apart and have no plans to do so unless something breaks which is unlikely. The six digit numbers in usual places. Will put up pictures if I can figure out how. Ed

[Brownmw]

One concern I would have is that someone has opened up the chokes on the set with imp cyl & cyl choking, I only say this as it makes little sense to have such long (30" bbls) with open choke. Of course as always ANYTHING is possible,

Also someone mentioned that the 1894 was not available in 26" barrel length as mine is. This is not true and can be easily verified in Semmer's book page 158 which states the 16 & 12 gauge were available in 26,28,30 & 32 inch. The 10 gauge was available in 30 & 32 inch.

By contrast the 1900 model was available only in 28, 30 & 32 inch (page 248)

Regards to all
Mike