141 Peerless Grade D Questions

[Romac]

I purchased this gun recently and am wondering if, other than the recoil pad, it is factory work or just very nice custom work. The serial number is 59XX. It was represented as a grade D but there is no grade engraved on it. Information on these guns is very thin on the internet.


I'm looking any information and possibly for a guide to the different engraving patterns available back in the day from the factory. Any help would be appreciated.

[John Gyde]

I'm a rimfire guy but... Your rifle sure looks like "D" grade engraving and wood. On the rimfires the "D" grades usually did not have checkered fore-arms. I see it has a pistol grip cap. Does it say Rem-UMC?

I'm not aware of any exact template the engravers followed. I believe there was some degree of freedom allowed.

[DavidFagan]

I've never examined a engraved 141 but wouldn't it also have an Engraved serial no like the 12 and 121's?

[John Gyde]

The M/12 "D" grades I have seen had serial #s that were stamped, not engraved.

[Romac]

It has a grip cap with Remington written twice around the outer edge as if the words made parenthesis () surrounding the screw and a Fluer de lis type of pattern in the center. I'll try to get a picture later tonight.

[Romac]

Well, not quite a Fluer de lis but the picture below is better than my description.



I hope this helps.

[John Gyde]

Interesting grip cap. Your rifle was made just about the time UMC went away and DuPont took over. The ones I have seen either said Rem-UMC or Rem Arms Co after the takeover. Even though it only says Remington, it looks right to me. Again, my experience has been primarily with rimfires.

[Romac]

If I am interpreting it correctly, the barrel stamp of DF and something else that is illegible indicates a September 1937 date of manufacture. Which would make it about second year production which is also supported by the low serial number.

I still have more questions than answers, and am trying to learn more.

[Romac]

Here are a few additional pictures, I'm still looking for an afficianado to confirm some facts.

Top:



Bottom:



Pre war milled site ramp:



Only cosmetic flaw other than the recoil pad being added:

[54bullseye]

ROMAC : That is a really nice rifle factory engraved or not !!!! I have a 241 that was engraved at Remington Factory and it has the same pistol grip cap as yours. It is the same type used on 725 rifles that I have .. Also in the picture that you posted showing the engraving on the top of the receiver it is quite similar to the top of my 241 which was done by engraver Carl Ennis... You should try to get the Reminton Journal from 4th quarter of 2008 it tells about all the old engravers and has examples of all there work. You can get it off the RSA site .. Nice Gun !!!!!!
54bullseye John

[umcpumpgun]

Romac, Your gun is definitely a 141-"D" grade. The only thing out of place that I can find is the recoil pad. The eng. pattern on your is very common to the engraved Rem. centerfire rifles of that era. There wasn't a set exact pattern and they all varied a little. Most 141's didn't have the serial # engraved like the earlier 14's and other early Rems. Some of the 141 engraved guns had the grade desigination on the bottom of the receiver by the s.n. and some didn't. The grip cap is very common to grade guns of that era. All 141 "D" had a checkered forend. Your checkering is factory all of the way. Nice looking gun.

[bullet*69]

I doubt that the 141 is a "D" grade as some have indicated, rather a factory or custom shop engraved presentation or retirement gun. I would agree that both the engraving and checkering look factory and very similar to typical "D" grade rifles, but the gun is roll stamped on the left side of the receiver, which is not typical of higher grade guns. The higher grade rifles I have do have engraved serial numbers on the bottom of the receiver, along with their grade description. They are not roll stamped like this rifle as custom shop guns were typically pulled from the line before they were roll stamped. Also, this rifle does not appear to have engraving on the barrel which would be standard on a "D" grade. I do believe this gun started life at the factory as a line production gun, which was pulled and upgraded with engraving and finer checkered wood as a presentation gun to someone of some level of importance, or as a retirement gun for someone of some level of importance at the plant. As I have indicated, the engraving patterns and wood follow typical "D" characteristics, but I don't believe it was a custom shop ordered "D" grade that was sold to the public as a "D" grade. I hope this was beneficial.

[umcpumpgun]

In response to the recent discussion of this D grade rifle,I have never seen a grade designation on an early grade gun,however it is very common to see the grade designation on later grade guns. The sn is always engraved on guns pretty much before 1936,both on the bottom of the receiver as well as the lower tang. The later guns I have looked at all had the sn stamped and some had the grade designation,but not all. I agree that the roll mark is uncommon in this "D" grade and not a normal thing. It is common knowledge that a lot of the receivers of all the different models were sent to the engraving room in "batched" serial number incriments which shows up in consecutive sn grade guns. Also this batching of sn's is why some engraved guns sn's are so out of whack with different changes as well as the date code--build code as they may have sat in the engraving room long periods of time before being finished or worked on till an order came in. I can't guess as to why that the roll marks are on the receiver,but is very uncommon,but other than that the recoil pad as well as the jeweled bolt I would call it a "D" grade all the way,including wood grade,checkering,grip cap,and engraving. Nice gun.

[remington600]

I will admit I know nothing about 141's. Is the breech block usually jeweled on the higher grades? It's obvious that the tang sight and rear sight have been refinished along with probably the rear stock when the pad was added. Could it be a clone? It seems weird a pad would be added to a D-grade. Most people wouldn't spend the money for a gun like this to use. Much less to modify. Just my thoughts.


Billy Smith
Director
Remington Society of America
http://www.remingtonmodel12.com

[rem141]

Romac,
I agree with bullet*69 that you have a very nice looking rifle and that it started life as a 141 standard grade gun. I have concerns about the lack of sharpness on the Gamemaster and serial number stampings on the left side of the receiver. Could it have been a favorite gun of a father or grandfather that was sent back to Remington to be engraved and restocked? Don't know if they would do that and if they would then put on a repair date and code. It would be like a special order gun, but done to a gun that spent time afield or as a safe queen. Without documentation you will never be sure.
Ken Blauch