Hey guys. Just joined. First post. Found this forum researching a pistol I had.
My New model is SN 47,xxx. It’s not a New Model
Army etc. no cartouche no lettering stamping.
It’s only got two line stamping on the barrel
The mfg, city and then under it “new model”
And it’s got a dovetail blade front sight.
Can’t find another one like it. I just want to know if this was std issue on the civilian pistols. Thanks Andrew.
1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
Hi Andrew,
Since the bbl has "New Model" it must be a new model, unless the bbl was changed. If the "New Model" in on the bottom line, and by itself, the top line, with the patent date is either worn off, or was never stamped. The serial was made in Nov. or Dec. 1864. Send the last 3 numbers and we can tell which month.Without the inspector's marks the gun is a civilian model. The grips are easily worn down, or replaced so the lack of a cartouche has no meaning on it's own.
A dovetail, blade front sight is a replacement. Its possible that the original sight was a cone, and the replacement was made to fit the dovetail made for the cone base. or it is a new dovetail to fit the sight on hand.
Photos would be a great help.
Daniel
Since the bbl has "New Model" it must be a new model, unless the bbl was changed. If the "New Model" in on the bottom line, and by itself, the top line, with the patent date is either worn off, or was never stamped. The serial was made in Nov. or Dec. 1864. Send the last 3 numbers and we can tell which month.Without the inspector's marks the gun is a civilian model. The grips are easily worn down, or replaced so the lack of a cartouche has no meaning on it's own.
A dovetail, blade front sight is a replacement. Its possible that the original sight was a cone, and the replacement was made to fit the dovetail made for the cone base. or it is a new dovetail to fit the sight on hand.
Photos would be a great help.
Daniel
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UpNorthCountry
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2024 9:49 am
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
I’ll get pics tonight, Thursday. I believe the grips to be original. The dovetailing on the front
Site matches the dovetailing that holds the loading lever retainer. There is no patent. No inspection marks and only (paraphrasing)
E Remington Ilion Illinois
NEW MODEL
And the SN is under the loading lever. The bbl matches the patina and wear of the rest of the gun. It has no pits. No dings no scrapes and it hasnt been buffed. In fact, I think the gun was not fired much at all compared to others.
Site matches the dovetailing that holds the loading lever retainer. There is no patent. No inspection marks and only (paraphrasing)
E Remington Ilion Illinois
NEW MODEL
And the SN is under the loading lever. The bbl matches the patina and wear of the rest of the gun. It has no pits. No dings no scrapes and it hasnt been buffed. In fact, I think the gun was not fired much at all compared to others.
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
Hi Andrew,
The gun should have 3 serial locations. Under the bbl, on the lower, left grip frame, and on the trigger guard tab.
The bbl marking should be in three lines.
"Patented Sept 14, 1858"
"E. Remington & Sons. Ilion New York USA"
"New Model"
On a rare occasions, a different bbl address was used,
"Remingtons Ilion. NY,"
But the book never mentions, and I've never seen a marking of:
"E Remington Ilion Illinois"
Rem was located only in NY, so the "Illinois" has to be wrong.
Is it possible that the lettering is so worn that you had to interpret the marking?
Interested to see what it looks like,
Daniel
The gun should have 3 serial locations. Under the bbl, on the lower, left grip frame, and on the trigger guard tab.
The bbl marking should be in three lines.
"Patented Sept 14, 1858"
"E. Remington & Sons. Ilion New York USA"
"New Model"
On a rare occasions, a different bbl address was used,
"Remingtons Ilion. NY,"
But the book never mentions, and I've never seen a marking of:
"E Remington Ilion Illinois"
Rem was located only in NY, so the "Illinois" has to be wrong.
Is it possible that the lettering is so worn that you had to interpret the marking?
Interested to see what it looks like,
Daniel
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UpNorthCountry
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2024 9:49 am
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
Yes. NY. I must have been retarded to think Illinois..
See pics. Only SN is under the bbl. Perhaps it was rebarreled. But there is definitely no patent. And no SN on the trigger guard which fit match and patina even underneath matches the gun. This thing was very very well cared for. There’s a family history from it but I have to do some digging. See pics. IMO The gun has not been shot enough to have reduplicated the marks from the loading handle
Notch. The bore is excellent and the cylinders are as well. What looks like
Pitting is just lint and some minor discoloration. This gun has not been buffed.
See pics. Only SN is under the bbl. Perhaps it was rebarreled. But there is definitely no patent. And no SN on the trigger guard which fit match and patina even underneath matches the gun. This thing was very very well cared for. There’s a family history from it but I have to do some digging. See pics. IMO The gun has not been shot enough to have reduplicated the marks from the loading handle
Notch. The bore is excellent and the cylinders are as well. What looks like
Pitting is just lint and some minor discoloration. This gun has not been buffed.
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
Sorry, but this is a replica, not a real Remington. The markings on the barrel are not correct. They should be :
PATENTED SEPT. 14, 1858
E. REMINGTON & SONS, ILION, NEW YORK, U.S.A.
NEW MODEL
on 3 lines, and the font of the characters is not correct either..
PATENTED SEPT. 14, 1858
E. REMINGTON & SONS, ILION, NEW YORK, U.S.A.
NEW MODEL
on 3 lines, and the font of the characters is not correct either..
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UpNorthCountry
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2024 9:49 am
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
It would have stamps And proofs. I just wonder if it was rebarreled. You can’t just call it a replica because you found a possible variation or modification you haven’t seen. I’m looking for something mechanically to prove it more so than opinion. So help me prove it wrong mechanically
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
Hi UpNorthCountry,
I agree with Patbar.
I'am sorry for you but what you have is a counterfeited Italian modern replica.
Everything is wrong on this gun..
Karu
I agree with Patbar.
I'am sorry for you but what you have is a counterfeited Italian modern replica.
Everything is wrong on this gun..
Karu
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
Hi Andrew,
Karu and Patbar are knowledgeable on Remingtons, and they are probably right, but since I'm a born skeptic, I'd like to see the photos. Can you re-post them, or send them to me at: aardqe5@gmail.com.
The serial on the trigger guard is not on the outside. You have to remove the trigger guard to see the number on the tab. Is there a number on the left, lower grip frame?
A civilian Rem would have no markings except the top of the bbl marking. All foreign made copies will have several proof marks on the frame, and/or the cylinder, and /or the bbl. There is almost always a marking on the gun with the name of the country of origin. I'm not too concerned that the top line of the bbl mark is missing. Things like that happened.
Daniel
Karu and Patbar are knowledgeable on Remingtons, and they are probably right, but since I'm a born skeptic, I'd like to see the photos. Can you re-post them, or send them to me at: aardqe5@gmail.com.
The serial on the trigger guard is not on the outside. You have to remove the trigger guard to see the number on the tab. Is there a number on the left, lower grip frame?
A civilian Rem would have no markings except the top of the bbl marking. All foreign made copies will have several proof marks on the frame, and/or the cylinder, and /or the bbl. There is almost always a marking on the gun with the name of the country of origin. I'm not too concerned that the top line of the bbl mark is missing. Things like that happened.
Daniel
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
Hi Dan,
Too Bad.. Pics have disapeared.
It was #47555.
See you
Too Bad.. Pics have disapeared.
It was #47555.
See you
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
Andrew sent me some photos and Karu and Parbar are right, it's not a Remington. I don't know what make it is, but its not a Remmie. If it was sold to you as a Remmie, and you paid a Remmie price, try to get your money back, and then stay away from that seller!!
If it was cheap enough, and it was bought as a shooter, it may be an accurate pistol, so shoot it and find out
If its accurate and you enjoy shooting it, then ENJOY IT! ; ) Maybe you can find other Remmie fans in your area, or get together with Karu and Patbar.
I have no idea of the cost, or the requirements to buy an original in the US, and import it to France, but that could be a option if you want an original.
Good luck with whatever you do,
Daniel
If it was cheap enough, and it was bought as a shooter, it may be an accurate pistol, so shoot it and find out
If its accurate and you enjoy shooting it, then ENJOY IT! ; ) Maybe you can find other Remmie fans in your area, or get together with Karu and Patbar.
I have no idea of the cost, or the requirements to buy an original in the US, and import it to France, but that could be a option if you want an original.
Good luck with whatever you do,
Daniel
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
A Remington made in 1864 would have a screwed in pinched front sight. They quit using the dovetailed cone in 1863. Uberti is the only one I know of using a dovetailed pinched sight.
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
Hi Hawg,
Maybe. Rem never threw anything away, and if a bunch of cone sights turned up, Rem would probably use them. The Belt Model survey shows that front sights were used after a previous type had been replaced. It's as if Rem didn't follow any kind of rules, and often didn't appear to use logic. Go figure!
Daniel
Maybe. Rem never threw anything away, and if a bunch of cone sights turned up, Rem would probably use them. The Belt Model survey shows that front sights were used after a previous type had been replaced. It's as if Rem didn't follow any kind of rules, and often didn't appear to use logic. Go figure!
Daniel
Re: 1858 New Model civilian 2 line address
So true ! I have a Remington Navy Model which has the frame, cylinder, base pin and hammer of the New Model along with the barrel (with its German silver cone front sight) and loading lever of the 1861 Model.aardq wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 6:34 pm Hi Hawg,
Maybe. Rem never threw anything away, and if a bunch of cone sights turned up, Rem would probably use them. The Belt Model survey shows that front sights were used after a previous type had been replaced. It's as if Rem didn't follow any kind of rules, and often didn't appear to use logic. Go figure!
Daniel