Potential Remington No1 "Creedmoor" - Help!

[EhAr15]

Good evening,

I just came across my first Remington Rolling block after winning it at auction, and am quite outside my league on these. I am a Sharps collector, and had intended to "fill a gap" with a nice Remington No1 sporting rifle to fill that "buffalo rifle" niche.

Upon further inspection and asking some folks online, it seems this rifle may be a "Creedmoor" model. I say may as quite honestly I am outside my knowledge base with this one, and I figure there is no better place to ask then here.

The rifle itself has a 34" Octagon-to-Round barrel (round part is tapered). The rifle is marked "44S" on the underside of the barrel (which I understand is likely 44-77), and features a nice wind gauge front sight. The rifle has a pistol grip stock, with a flat buttplate and very nice wood, with ebony inlay on the pistol grip. Stocks are checkered and the receiver shows slight colour case hardening. Blued parts are very nicely done, and overall the fit and finish of the rifle is excellent.

The rifle has serial number "5686" (or "3686") on both the receiver and underside of the barrel. Interestingly enough, on the underside of the barrel under the stock is also stamped "L L HEPBURN" five times in a diamond pattern. I have read about Lewis Hepburn, and am familiar with his association to the No3 Rifle. Comments from Facebook suggest that this rifle may have a barrel that was inspected by him - is this accurate? I have been told that Mr. Marcot's reference book makes a note of this marking, but have been unable to locate a copy for purchase (I do have his Sharps Vol III however).

What differentiates a "Creedmoor" rifle vs a Mid Range or Short Range No1 with fancy features? This rifle has a relatively short vernier tang sight, which I understand may be NOT be a "Creemoor" sight. Is this an "add on" after it left the factory? or is this possibly original? If it is an "add on" is it worth selling and trying to find a "Creedmoor" sight?

Any ideas, thoughts or help is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
Matt

[EhAr15]

[oughtsix]

Just saw your post. WOW! nice rifle. I am not an expert (yet) but it certainly is a Creedmoor style. The 5 LLHepburn stamps are something I've never heard of. and 44S means 44 Special Could be 44-77 or 44-90 do a chamber cast and see which one you have. One never knows with these old ladies.

From what little study I have done, Long Range rifles have longer barrels (34") than Mid range ( not 34") and taller tang sights, but tang sights are easily switched. Maybe with a heel sight but not always.

I'm really surprised no one else has replied.

Alan

[marlinman93]

It does indeed appear to be a real Creedmoor model. The 34" barrel is part of that, but there were Creedmoors with shorter, but not longer. The cartridge will be a big part to separate a Long-Range from a Mid-Range, as the .44-77 was not a Mid-Range cartridge.
LL Hepburn was the shop superintendent and occasionally pulled guns to do a QC check. But no records about why he stamped guns differently as I've seen this small 5 diamond stamp and 1,2,or 3 stamps of his LL Hepburn stamp also. A note here. After leaving Remington he went to work at Marlin, and used the same stamp to mark Marlin barrels starting around 1889 until his death.
This serial number is well after the rifles used in the first Creedmoor match, which fell in around serial #3000. I have what is likely a prototype Creedmoor that was built prior to the model being offered in Rem. catalogs in 1874, and min is in the low 1500 rang. Also one of just a few with full round barrel, as the half octagon became the standard shape.
Great rifle, and a very lucky find!

[EhAr15]

Thank you both!

This information is incredibly helpful!

I had a chance to shoot the rifle recently using 43 Spanish brass neck sized out to .447, a 540gr PP lead bullet stop 80gr FFG.

The rifle functioned well, but accuracy was awful. I suspect the bullet is wayyyy to heavy for this calibre. It's all I had on hand!

[marlinman93]

Thank you both!

This information is incredibly helpful!

I had a chance to shoot the rifle recently using 43 Spanish brass neck sized out to .447, a 540gr PP lead bullet stop 80gr FFG.

The rifle functioned well, but accuracy was awful. I suspect the bullet is wayyyy to heavy for this calibre. It's all I had on hand!

If you used bullets that fit a .447 neck, then you likely used much too small a diameter for the Remington .44-77 bottleneck bore. I own two in .44-77 and both slug to around .452" groove diameter. Unless you slugged it first, the .447" bullets suggested in some places are for a paper patch bullet. Once patched they fit the larger .452" groove and shoot accurately. But if you shoot grease groove bullets, you need to slug your bore to ensure they are sized for the groove diameter.
These old Creedmoor rifles shot extremely heavy bullets quite well, even with the fairly slow twist. The American team didn't shoot light bullets in their Remington and Sharps rifles, so a 500-530 gr. bullet was commonly used for the Creedmoor Remingtons.