1858 NMA

[phicaloma]

Hello,
I've just bought a 1858 New Model Army, and I have some questions about it.
It seems it has been manufactured in March 1865 as the serial # is 143486, stamped on the barrel and on the left side of the handle (6 missing, a hole for the lanyard ring having been bored in it).
Lots of check letters stamped all over ("c", "j" and "p" on frame and cylinder, additional "w" on back of cylinder).
A large "T V" mark on the right side of the handle.
It has been polished (the patent marking is only partially visible), and the rear sight V filed down, which could be a marker for for a "french" 1858 (20,000 imported for the franco-prussian war in 1870).
Trigger spring, trigger, cylinder lock and hand seem to be recent replacements. The rest seems genuine.
It shoots quite well, action is smooth, indexing almost perfect, cylinder gap 0,25mm (.010"). Chambers are .455", bore around .463". I shoot .457" round bullets with 13gr of Swiss N°1 (and a filling of medium semolina).
It shoots way too high (which can certainly be considered normal @ 25 m) and I'd like to find or make a new much higher front sight.
- Do you have some more info/history about this gun?
- Do you know what is the thread size for the front sight? And for the other screws (I couldn't find this info)?
- Do you know where I could find a higher front sight?

Thank you in advance for your help,
Some photos:

[phicaloma]

A few more images

[dieNusse1]

You may wish to contact Dixie Gun Works. They have parts for both original and repro NMAs.

[aardq]

Hi Phicoloma,

A few answers that you won’t like.

1) The letters, T and V are not Remington or US markings.

2) Most of the 1865 NMA production went into Ordinance stores and weren’t issued. From there they could have gone any place. Some were later civilian sales, some were converted to cartridge guns, and as you know, many were sent to France, where the finish was stripped off. I have no idea why the French Army did this, but it obviously makes the exterior subject to rust. I am surprised that the barrel edges are so rounded.

3) I am not aware of any source for dimensions of the front sight screw threads, or for any parts. A gunsmith should be able to make a new front sight and copy the thread dimensions.

4) I checked the Dixie catalog, and they have none of the screw in front sights, and I have no idea where to find any. The screw in, or pinched front sight was also used on some of the Model 1875 cartridge revolvers so maybe someone has those sights. The demand must be almost non-existent so you’re back to a gunsmith.

Your load is 13 grains of Swiss powder and I don’t know what size that is, or how it compares to our black powder sizes. Dixie recommends 22 grains of FFFG powder. The ball should be seated directly on top of the powder without any filler between powder and ball. Then the chamber should be filled with a black powder lube, to prevent flash over, and to reduce black powder fouling in the barrel.

Enjoy you Remington, and keep shooting it.
Daniel

[phicaloma]

Hi Daniel,
Thank you for the answers anyway, I am not sure I don't like them
I will try a local gunsmith (I live in France near Paris) to make a new front sight. Or I will try to duplicate the 2 threads visible on the original part myself...
I found replacement threaded front sights on VGP Western an S&S Firearms websites, but they are the same size (height) as the originals.
I glued (which means it will be unglued) a new front sight which authorizes perfect aim, but I'd prefer to have a threaded one.
As I practice precision shooting (MLAIC rules - 25 meters one handed) with round balls I try to keep away from heavy loads, I changed yesterday to 15gr of Swiss N°1 BP and it seems to group OK. Swiss N°1 is ffffg. I always lube the loaded chambers (MLAIC rule again, prevents backfires and plumbing of the barrel).
Thanks again Daniel,
Regards,
Philippe

[Aquatek]

Hi I have an NMA also made in March 1868 and not so many numbers away from yours at 143924.
I thought mine was sent to France too but it hasn’t been polished so not sure of it’s history, I know it’s been to London and is now in Sweden, fun to try to track the history but not easy!
Cheers,
John.

[Patbar]

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2) Most of the 1865 NMA production went into Ordinance stores and weren’t issued. From there they could have gone any place. Some were later civilian sales, some were converted to cartridge guns, and as you know, many were sent to France, where the finish was stripped off. I have no idea why the French Army did this, but it obviously makes the exterior subject to rust. I am surprised that the barrel edges are so rounded.

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Up to the second part of the 19th century, in France, only officers guns were blued, and the troops ones were left in the white so that sergeants could easily spot rust spots which indicated that the soldier who had the gun in charge did not maintain it correctly and so deserved a punishment.

[Aquatek]

Thanks
Was there any record of the barrels being shortened to 6”? Maybe this happened when it reached England…
John.