Remington 870 20-ga Magnum Anomaly

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davidmauger_frogger
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:33 pm

Remington 870 20-ga Magnum Anomaly

Post by davidmauger_frogger » Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:58 pm

New to this site and eventually will join memebership with the association, but doing an initial post of what appears to be an anomaly that does not confirm with the typical SN coding I come across online that indicates suffix X 2.75-in and N a 3-in gun. I will eventually post pics if I can figure it out how to do it, but it is a large frame or Standard Weight 20-ga built on/from the 12-ga frame and it dates to 1968...which conforms quite well with my memory my dad bought it for me and gifted it to me in December of 1968. It was a 20-ga Magnum "Duck Gun" that came with the 28-in full choke vent rib barrel and a ca 3/4 lb all steel plug referred to as "vari-weight." Best I can determine it was originally bought from Millikan's Sporting Goods in Hammond, Indiana. The 28-in full choke 3-in shells stamped barrel, codes date Aug 1968. Remington on numerous inquiries give me date of manufacture of the frame based on SN (no prefix) as 1968. Good right?

The problem is with this gun the SN ends in suffix with an X. Specifically the SN is 1257756X. Remington and even attempts to send pics and inquiries to their "Historian" has failed to yield and explanation and/or get verification I do indeed the owner of a bonafide 3-in magnum gun. When the 3rd seesion chat I did with someone called "Mitchell" yesterday, he at first reported gun was made in 1973. But further dialog was he used the 1100 SN lookpup and not 870. With 870...he verified 1968 year of production, which is what two other prior online chats revealed...one of them even saying Nov of 1968.

At one point in the chat with Mitchell...I referred to the original email inquiry I sent to the "info@" Remington address cc'd to "Historian" that I attached numerous pics. He tracked down that email, then looked at the pics, then responded....wow...that is a Magnum marked receiver and could not account for the SN ending in X.

So does this interest anyone out there in Remington Collectors Society? Looking for some help how to clarify and verify that I do indeed own a bonafide 3-in magnum duck gun from 1968. Responses from inquiries reveal Remington will not research nor validate or verify guns in this instance...and puts the burden on me to proove what I own. But when I inquired about attaining manufacturing standards for ejection port opening standards or other aspects of adjustment has to be done to make an 870 3-in magnum compliant (e.g. extractors)...I was simply informed no details of manufacturing standards or protocol are provided by Remington.

I haven't done much 3-in magnum shooting from this gun...mainly in the early days back in late 70's and 80's...used once on goose hunting in Minnesota, a couple times duck hunting in NW Indidana and once doing some late season pheasant hunting when the birds flushed long and using full choke...did I shoot the 3-in shells through it. But they shot...cycled and ejected flawlessly.

Is this a mystery to anyone in this collectors society? If so...I want some expertise and feedback!

Wulfman
Posts: 626
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: N.W. Wyoming

Re: Remington 870 20-ga Magnum Anomaly

Post by Wulfman » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:05 pm

davidmauger_frogger wrote:
Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:58 pm
New to this site and eventually will join memebership with the association, but doing an initial post of what appears to be an anomaly that does not confirm with the typical SN coding I come across online that indicates suffix X 2.75-in and N a 3-in gun. I will eventually post pics if I can figure it out how to do it, but it is a large frame or Standard Weight 20-ga built on/from the 12-ga frame and it dates to 1968...which conforms quite well with my memory my dad bought it for me and gifted it to me in December of 1968. It was a 20-ga Magnum "Duck Gun" that came with the 28-in full choke vent rib barrel and a ca 3/4 lb all steel plug referred to as "vari-weight." Best I can determine it was originally bought from Millikan's Sporting Goods in Hammond, Indiana. The 28-in full choke 3-in shells stamped barrel, codes date Aug 1968. Remington on numerous inquiries give me date of manufacture of the frame based on SN (no prefix) as 1968. Good right?

The problem is with this gun the SN ends in suffix with an X. Specifically the SN is 1257756X. Remington and even attempts to send pics and inquiries to their "Historian" has failed to yield and explanation and/or get verification I do indeed the owner of a bonafide 3-in magnum gun. When the 3rd seesion chat I did with someone called "Mitchell" yesterday, he at first reported gun was made in 1973. But further dialog was he used the 1100 SN lookpup and not 870. With 870...he verified 1968 year of production, which is what two other prior online chats revealed...one of them even saying Nov of 1968.

At one point in the chat with Mitchell...I referred to the original email inquiry I sent to the "info@" Remington address cc'd to "Historian" that I attached numerous pics. He tracked down that email, then looked at the pics, then responded....wow...that is a Magnum marked receiver and could not account for the SN ending in X.

So does this interest anyone out there in Remington Collectors Society? Looking for some help how to clarify and verify that I do indeed own a bonafide 3-in magnum duck gun from 1968. Responses from inquiries reveal Remington will not research nor validate or verify guns in this instance...and puts the burden on me to proove what I own. But when I inquired about attaining manufacturing standards for ejection port opening standards or other aspects of adjustment has to be done to make an 870 3-in magnum compliant (e.g. extractors)...I was simply informed no details of manufacturing standards or protocol are provided by Remington.

I haven't done much 3-in magnum shooting from this gun...mainly in the early days back in late 70's and 80's...used once on goose hunting in Minnesota, a couple times duck hunting in NW Indidana and once doing some late season pheasant hunting when the birds flushed long and using full choke...did I shoot the 3-in shells through it. But they shot...cycled and ejected flawlessly.

Is this a mystery to anyone in this collectors society? If so...I want some expertise and feedback!
I'm not sure what the confusion is.

There are numerous posts listing the prefix and suffix designations.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=21176&p=38328&hilit=suffix#p38328

General forum search:

search.php?keywords=suffix

Or.....

Serial number Info
1950 TO APPROX 1968: NO SERIAL NUMBER PREFIX
1968 TO PRESENT: LETTERS USED (IN SEQUENCE)
S-68, T-74, V-78, W-84, X-90, A-91, B-94, C-97, D-01, AB-05

LETTER SUFFIX (DESIGNATES GAUGE)
Suffix Gauge
V 12 GA. (2 3/4”)
M 12 GA. MAGNUM (3”)
A 12 GA. “SUPER” MAGNUM (3 ½”)
W 16 GA. ( 2 ¾” )
X 20 GA. “HEAVY FRAME” (DISCONTINUED)
N 20 GA. “HEAVY FRAME MAGNUM” (DISCONTINUED)
K 20 GA. “LIGHT WEIGHT” (“LW”) (ALSO INCLUDES M/1100 “LT”)
U 20 GA. LW MAGNUM (ALSO INCLUDES M/1100 “LT”)
J 28 GA.
H .410 BORE (2 ½” OR 3”)



Den

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davidmauger_frogger
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:33 pm

Re: Remington 870 20-ga Magnum Anomaly

Post by davidmauger_frogger » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:10 pm

Obviously you didn't read the explicit detail. What is the problem? It's a 20-ga standard or large frame 870 Wingmaster magnum from 1968, but its SN ends in Suffix "X"...when it supposed to be "N." That's the problem...the SN on frame of receiver is designated X or 2.75-in suffix code, but it is a 3-in magnum gun!

davidmauger_frogger
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:33 pm

Re: Remington 870 20-ga Magnum Anomaly

Post by davidmauger_frogger » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:21 pm

here's pic files of gun as it gift to me from dad in 1968. Receiver stamped MAGNUM...SN with no prefix...suffix ends in X. Comes with 3-in mag 28-in full choke vent rib barrel. It fires and cycles and ejects 3-in magnum shells. Has SN ends in X that supposed to mean it is 2.75-in gun. That's the problem. Ignore the fact it has corn-cob version fore-end and currently has a field grade stock with no recoil pad. I took them off from the original Duck Gun and replaced them with corn-cob forend and plastic butt plate stock salvaged from 16-ga Wingmaster. So no one sees a problem or inconsistency with no explanation that a 3-in 20-ga standard frame gun from 1968 has an X suffix for its SN?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Wulfman
Posts: 626
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:04 pm
Location: N.W. Wyoming

Re: Remington 870 20-ga Magnum Anomaly

Post by Wulfman » Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:04 pm

davidmauger_frogger wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:10 pm
Obviously you didn't read the explicit detail. What is the problem? It's a 20-ga standard or large frame 870 Wingmaster magnum from 1968, but its SN ends in Suffix "X"...when it supposed to be "N." That's the problem...the SN on frame of receiver is designated X or 2.75-in suffix code, but it is a 3-in magnum gun!
Yes, I read the explicit detail.

Remington has had a lengthy history of mis-stamping their firearms or assembling them in some configuration other than what may have been intended.
I have two 20 ga. 870s (one made in 1970 and the other in 1976 and all have an "X" suffix) and a 12 ga. 870 (made in 1968) and all three seem to have the same length ejection ports as the one in your picture (from what I can make out). The only difference is that of the chambering which is in the barrel. I have several 3" chambered barrels for my 12 ga. that I purchased later on because they had changeable choke tubes.
Somebody (when they were building yours) either mis-stamped the receiver or serial number suffix or somehow changed the configuration from what the original intention was supposed to be.

Lots of "unique" Remington firearms out there because they were altered on the assembly line.


Den

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davidmauger_frogger
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:33 pm

Re: Remington 870 20-ga Magnum Anomaly

Post by davidmauger_frogger » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:12 pm

this is obviously what I looking for...anything that corroborates that either mistake in stamping SN, or more so have to suspect in later days of 20-ga standard frame, they were using up parts to assemble whatever and sell them off before going solely with the 20-ga LW 870. But Remington doesn't keep records like that or that kind of stamping detail, like armories making Mosin Nagants in Soviet Union or later on in Soviet satellite countries. Those collectors of Mosin Nagants....got it all figured out and how to interpret when the gun was made or refurbished.

It was interesting that Remington Arms staff would not give me access to the specific dimensions the 3-in magnum receievers were milled to in terms of ejection port opening, or whatever else had to be modified if it were originally a 2.75-in frame. I glean from a few posts elsewhere on line something different has to be modified with extractors and/or ejectors? This is the kind of info and detail one cannot get from current day Remington Arms customer service, or Historian, if they actually truly have one.

What I can't get confirmation of from Remington Arms on is the simple stamping of the word "MAGNUM" on the receiever. Does this word on their supercede anything else in terms of ending suffix in SN that anyone in the world would conclude it is a bonafide 20-ga magnum 870 from 1968? This is the kind of info I am hoping you awesome people in Remington Collectors Association can advise me of.

My recall is gun was originally bought in 1968 by my Dad and likely at J. W. Millikans in Hammond, Indiana. I never saved the original carton it came in, and somewhere along the line the original owners manual lost. I don't recall my dad ever giving me the original receipt and such showing date and where it was purchased. Had I saved the original carton it might have had documentation on that carton indicated Model and details that it was a Magnum gun. The barrel is definitely 28-in full choke, vent rib 3-in magnum and barrel codes date to Aug 1968...consistent with the base year of SN ending in X and my recall of it being gifted to me in December 68, my first year in HS. And I still have the original all steel, blued plug, referred to as "vari-weight"....which is consistent with 20-ga 3-in magnum duck gun of 1968 era.

So I obviously have a 3-in magnum standard frame 20-ga and I know it shoots 3-in shells flawlessly. I just trying to uncover the details and collect info can explain why that SN on frame ends in X. There are only two plausible explanations. First is someone mis-stamped the SN sufficx code on the frame. The second is they made frames and maybe originally it was milled to 2.75-in and stamped with X, then later on they decided to use up receiver and not assemble it as a 2.75-in gun, but retrofit it to 3-in magnum receiver and lengthen the ejection port and maybe do some modifications to bolt makes extraction consistent to both 2.75-in and 3-in shells.

this is the kind of detective work I trying to accomplish that puts some reasonable explanations as to what I own and says it is a bonafide 20-ga 3-in Magnum gun...despite the X-ending suffix in SN. And I have to presume there are many in this Remington Society of America that know far more about this than I, and far more than even current Remington Arms staff are aware of. Anyone in this Society can keep giving me details and explanations how things done in Remington manufacture....would be greatly appreciated.

davidmauger_frogger
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:33 pm

Re: Remington 870 20-ga Magnum Anomaly

Post by davidmauger_frogger » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:37 am

Anyone provide reference to range of years the 20-ga Standard Frame Mangum produced? Introduced in 1962? Production ceased 1977? Can anyone corroborate this?

admin
Site Admin
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Re: Remington 870 20-ga Magnum Anomaly

Post by admin » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:06 am

davidmauger_frogger wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:37 am
Anyone provide reference to range of years the 20-ga Standard Frame Mangum produced? Introduced in 1962? Production ceased 1977? Can anyone corroborate this?
some help https://www.remingtonsociety.org/collec ... -shotguns/

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