Hello, my name is Richard and i live in the Netherlands. I recently bought what i think is a genuine Remington 1858 New Model Navy Revolver, caliber .36
The gun is most certainly not in a very good shape and there are some things that seems to be broken/changed or tamperd with. In the Netherlands you dont see many 1858's and the are most of the time very expensive, so dispite the fact that the gun is not in perfect condition i' am very happy with it.
Still if have a few questions and i hope you can help me out with it and, help is much appreciated.
At first the big question; Is this a original Remington 1858, and if so, from what year exactly?
Second question; i noticed some details that seem to be changed or tamperd with, what do you make of it?
Details i have noticed so far myself:
* Triggerguard - at some point in time it has broken en was badly rebend, so the original shape has been lost.
* Part of the original serial (left side) (in the grip?) has gone due to some repairs or something else?
- Only the last 3 original digits are visible on the grip on the left side; serial grip: ??629
- Seems that there is some metal missing form the frame en main spring?
* On the right side of the grip there is a compleet serial (new, later added?, not same font as barrel or left side).
* Serial on the barrel is in good shape, font and size of numbers are the same as the broken serial on the grip left side; Serial barrel: 37629
* Patent and markings on top of the barrel are almost gone, but still parts are visible.
* One nippel looks not original? - It looks if one nippel is longer then the other ones en seems to be a #11 insteed of a #10?
* Small "H" mark on the cylinder, but nowhere else on the frame are there markings.
* I think that the gun has underwent some browning but i' am not sure.
* Grips seems to be original, but no markings anywhere, is this normal for a old (civilian) Remington 1858?
For more pictures see: http://imgur.com/a/U5TSX
Despite all these shortcomings i' am still very happy with the gun but i'am very interested in your'e opinion and observations.
Many thanks in advance, Richard
Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
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raingods
Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
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Re: Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
Hi Richard
Congrats with a new gun, love those navy's.
I belive this is an original NMN, it has the correct markings .
The serial no. 37629 indicates it was shipped from the factory after the Cvil War.
There are no way to pinpoint production date more excact due to that Remington does not have any information on production of their early guns.
Best regards
Eskil
Congrats with a new gun, love those navy's.
I belive this is an original NMN, it has the correct markings .
The serial no. 37629 indicates it was shipped from the factory after the Cvil War.
There are no way to pinpoint production date more excact due to that Remington does not have any information on production of their early guns.
Best regards
Eskil
Best regard
Eskil
Revolver kind of guy
Eskil
Revolver kind of guy
Re: Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
Hello Richard,
I believe your revolver is an original Remington New Model 1858 Navy. As far as the exact year it was manufactured it becomes a little complicated because there are no Remington production records. Unlike the New Model Army production, which stopped at the end of the Civil War in 1865, the New Model Navies were produced until about 1880. Records of shipments to the Bureau of Ordnance (Navy) stop in December of 1865 at serial number 33,600. Total Navy Revolver production stopped at about 49,000 revolvers. New Model Navy production was around 200 per month the last nine months of 1865 and assuming it remained at 200 per month after the Navy contract was completed your revolver would have been manufactured somewhere around August of 1867.
From the letters visible and the position of the barrel address on the barrel the address is probably the last wartime three-line barrel address, which was; PATENTED SEPT. 14.1858 / E. REMINGTON & SONS.ILION NEW YORK U.S.A. / NEW-MODEL. This is consistent with the serial number on your revolver.
The frame looks to have been broken in the area of the serial number and probably welded back together which has obscured a part of the original serial number. This breakage could have occurred at the same time the trigger guard was deformed. There should be a slot at the bottom of the frame in which the main spring is seated and the screw is then used adjust the tension on the spring. On you revolver, since a part of the frame is missing and the slot is no longer there, the main spring has been replaced with a new one in which a hole had been drilled and tapped and a replacement screw is now used to hold the main spring in place and adjust the tension. This would indicate a field repair but if that were the case, why would the second serial number have been re-stamped on the right grip frame? I suppose it could have been a factory repair. The small “H” on the cylinder is an inspection mark found on martial revolvers. The cylinder was probably left over after military production stopped and used on your revolver. Most civilian revolvers do not have inspection marks but since Remington did not let any usable parts go to waste many do have marks.
To my knowledge Remington never browned any of their Army or Navy revolvers. The only markings I have observed on Remington grips other than the inspection letters on the bottom and the cartouche on the sides are pencil marks on the inside of the grips with the serial number or another number. This is because may of them had to be hand fitted to the revolver. The nipple is definitely the wrong size and is obviously a replacement.
Bill
I believe your revolver is an original Remington New Model 1858 Navy. As far as the exact year it was manufactured it becomes a little complicated because there are no Remington production records. Unlike the New Model Army production, which stopped at the end of the Civil War in 1865, the New Model Navies were produced until about 1880. Records of shipments to the Bureau of Ordnance (Navy) stop in December of 1865 at serial number 33,600. Total Navy Revolver production stopped at about 49,000 revolvers. New Model Navy production was around 200 per month the last nine months of 1865 and assuming it remained at 200 per month after the Navy contract was completed your revolver would have been manufactured somewhere around August of 1867.
From the letters visible and the position of the barrel address on the barrel the address is probably the last wartime three-line barrel address, which was; PATENTED SEPT. 14.1858 / E. REMINGTON & SONS.ILION NEW YORK U.S.A. / NEW-MODEL. This is consistent with the serial number on your revolver.
The frame looks to have been broken in the area of the serial number and probably welded back together which has obscured a part of the original serial number. This breakage could have occurred at the same time the trigger guard was deformed. There should be a slot at the bottom of the frame in which the main spring is seated and the screw is then used adjust the tension on the spring. On you revolver, since a part of the frame is missing and the slot is no longer there, the main spring has been replaced with a new one in which a hole had been drilled and tapped and a replacement screw is now used to hold the main spring in place and adjust the tension. This would indicate a field repair but if that were the case, why would the second serial number have been re-stamped on the right grip frame? I suppose it could have been a factory repair. The small “H” on the cylinder is an inspection mark found on martial revolvers. The cylinder was probably left over after military production stopped and used on your revolver. Most civilian revolvers do not have inspection marks but since Remington did not let any usable parts go to waste many do have marks.
To my knowledge Remington never browned any of their Army or Navy revolvers. The only markings I have observed on Remington grips other than the inspection letters on the bottom and the cartouche on the sides are pencil marks on the inside of the grips with the serial number or another number. This is because may of them had to be hand fitted to the revolver. The nipple is definitely the wrong size and is obviously a replacement.
Bill
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raingods
Re: Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
Billt and Eskilgh, thank you for your'e response. I'am pleassed to hear that you also think its a original.
If have still have to discover a lot about the history of the Remington 1858, thats one of the nice things about owning a pace of documented history. The information from Billt was very helpfull, thank you so much for that, much appreciated.
Still i have one observation/question (sorry
);
If you look closely at the barrel (zoom in, or see Imgur link...) it seems there is some kind of (gray), very light, type of painting/brushmarks on the barrel? Dont know exactly what is, or how it got there in the first place. But it looks old and has the original/right color like the rest of the gun.
Thats the reason why i thought that the gun has underwent some sort of bluing or browning, but mabye thats not the case as Billt stated; he has never seen bluing or browning on a 1858 before. I do not have a lot of experience with firearms (not used to having firearms in the Netherlands) so for me the question is; what is this and how did it get there?
As you can see now, I'am very much on the focussing on the details. Not because i think there is something wrong but more to familiarize myself with it. Because after thirty year's i can finnaly say; I own my first! 1858
Many thanks,
Richard
If have still have to discover a lot about the history of the Remington 1858, thats one of the nice things about owning a pace of documented history. The information from Billt was very helpfull, thank you so much for that, much appreciated.
Still i have one observation/question (sorry
); If you look closely at the barrel (zoom in, or see Imgur link...) it seems there is some kind of (gray), very light, type of painting/brushmarks on the barrel? Dont know exactly what is, or how it got there in the first place. But it looks old and has the original/right color like the rest of the gun.
Thats the reason why i thought that the gun has underwent some sort of bluing or browning, but mabye thats not the case as Billt stated; he has never seen bluing or browning on a 1858 before. I do not have a lot of experience with firearms (not used to having firearms in the Netherlands) so for me the question is; what is this and how did it get there?
As you can see now, I'am very much on the focussing on the details. Not because i think there is something wrong but more to familiarize myself with it. Because after thirty year's i can finnaly say; I own my first! 1858
Many thanks,
Richard
Re: Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
Richard,
The original finish on the Remington Army and Navy Revolvers was a blue finish. A brown finish, which was in use on firearms before the blue finish was invented, was never used on Remington Revolvers. Some revolvers were nickel plated after nickel plating was invented around 1870. The marks you see on the barrel look to me like marks from an abrasive tool, which may have been used to clean rust from the barrel. The fact that a part of the barrel address is missing indicates a buffing process was used at one time on the barrel. If you want to learn more about Remington Revolvers get a copy of Remington Army and Navy Revolvers 1861- 1888 by Donald Ware. Amazon.com has it for around $45 US.
Bill
The original finish on the Remington Army and Navy Revolvers was a blue finish. A brown finish, which was in use on firearms before the blue finish was invented, was never used on Remington Revolvers. Some revolvers were nickel plated after nickel plating was invented around 1870. The marks you see on the barrel look to me like marks from an abrasive tool, which may have been used to clean rust from the barrel. The fact that a part of the barrel address is missing indicates a buffing process was used at one time on the barrel. If you want to learn more about Remington Revolvers get a copy of Remington Army and Navy Revolvers 1861- 1888 by Donald Ware. Amazon.com has it for around $45 US.
Bill
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dannyfly53
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:19 pm
Re: Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
I have 1858 Remington New Model Navy in .36 Cal. with S/N 30281 under the barrel, trigger guard, and left hand grip frame. And I would like to know it's date of manufacture. Thanks so much!
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
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dannyfly53
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2022 10:19 pm
Re: Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
I have 1858 Remington New Model Navy in .36 Cal. with S/N 30281 under the barrel, trigger guard, and left hand grip frame. And I would like to know it's date of manufacture. Thanks so much!https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic? ... source=app
Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
Re: Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
Hello Danny,
According to Don Ware's book "Remington Army and Navy Revolvers 1861-1888" your revolver was made in December of 1864.
Happy New Year
Bill
According to Don Ware's book "Remington Army and Navy Revolvers 1861-1888" your revolver was made in December of 1864.
Happy New Year
Bill
Re: Help needed with authenticating New Model 1858 .36 Navy
Hi Richard,
Congrats on your first Remington. The only thing that I can add to what has already been said, is a guess on the "second" serial. This is just a guess, but it is possible that the repair to the frame was done in a country that requires damaged serial numbers to be replaced, and thus your gun has an added serial.
Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR,
Daniel
Congrats on your first Remington. The only thing that I can add to what has already been said, is a guess on the "second" serial. This is just a guess, but it is possible that the repair to the frame was done in a country that requires damaged serial numbers to be replaced, and thus your gun has an added serial.
Have a HAPPY NEW YEAR,
Daniel