Double 10 Bore, Patent April 10, 1872

gooseaholic · Post by **gooseaholic** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 3:29 pm

I am trying to research an old 10 bore side by side that is marked E. Remington & Sons, Illion, N.Y. It has double hammers, and 30" damascus barrels. It looks as if the stock may have been cut down and a "Hawkins" rubber recoil pad added some time ago. It has a patent date of April 10, 1872?. The serial # is 2234. It was handed down to me by my late grandfather. I am wondering what the actual model number would be, a rough estimate of it's value, or any other information you could give.
Thank you
M. Davis

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 4:54 pm

E. Remington & Sons made nine different hammer double barrel models -- Whitmore designed lifter models were 1873, 1875, 1876, 1878 and 1879. Conventional toplever models were 1882, 1883, 1885 and 1887. We need more information, and pictures would really help, if we are to tell you anything about your gun.

gooseaholic · Post by **gooseaholic** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:47 pm

To open the action, you have to lift up on the lever, rather than push it to the side. I found that patent date when I took the barrels off.

Here are a couple of pictures... Thanks!

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:02 pm

Ahh!! A picture is worth a thousand words of description. You have the Model 1878 heavy duck gun, made from 1878 to 1882, in 10-gauge with 30- or 32-inch barrels. The Model 1878 was the first Whitmore lifter action to have the dollshead rib extension. From your serial number yours was one of the last. The table in Semmer's book on Remington doubles estimates the serial number range of the Model 1878 from 1 to 2400, with the lowest and highest observed being 20 and 2290. Most are seen with the wedge forearm fastening as shown in your picture, but Semmer states a few are out there with the Deeley and Edge lever forearm fastening. The lowest, Grade 1 had a plain walnut stock with decarbonized steel barrels and listed for $55. Grade 2 had a checkered selected walnut stock with Twist steel barrels and listed at $70. Grade 3 had a checkered English walnut stock with Laminated steel barrels and listed at $85. Higher grades had finer English walnut stocks, finer engraving and increasingly finer Damascus barrels. A pistol grip was an extra $5 to $8.

The Model 1879 is a lighter weight 12-gauge version of this gun and featured the Deeley and Edge forearm fastening.

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:05 pm

The patent date should be April 16, 1872. That date applies to Patent No. 125,775 the basic patent for all the Remington Whitmore doubles.

gooseaholic · Post by **gooseaholic** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:03 am

Researcher... Thank you for sharing your knowledge. The print was very small,and I can see how a 6 could look like a 0, but I was happier than all heck just to find a date on it. I have had this thing for 10 years now never having a clue about when it was made...It's nice to know what a guy actually has in the safe. I have had thoughts of dragging it to the next gun show and seeing if I could trade it off for a 30-06, and have something I could actually use, but then I see my gramps face and a look of disappointment. Maybe if I chose a model 700 he would understand... It's a struggle within... I also have a real old W.W. Greener 10 bore that’s fancier than my Sunday going to meeting clothes, but Graham Greener wants me to send him 25 pounds of British Sterling ($54.00) before he will enlighten me. I think he forgot how the Revolutionary War started... EXCESIVE TAXATION? None the less... Thanks again
M. Davis
Top view of my Remington

gooseaholic · Post by **gooseaholic** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:05 am

Oh.. "Doll's head rib"... what does that mean?
Also... How do you tell the difference between twist steel and laminated steel?

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:04 am

The rib extension is that part that extends back from the breech end of the barrels, and fits into a pocket in the standing breech. There are many different styles of rib extensions used over the years and the style like used on this gun is often called a dollshead.

At this time, with 135 plus years of wear on them, I have a hard time differentiating Twist from Laminated. There should be a grade number stamped on the watertable, the flat part of the receiver the barrels close down against. The serial number is usually on the right hand side of the slots for the barrel lugs. The grade number is usually just above the serial number on the "bridge" across the slot for the barrel lugs. However, often times there are several numerals, various inspector's marks, in that same area, making it tough to tell which is the grade number. If you could post a good close up picture of the watertable maybe we could help.

Looks like from your top view picture that the stock has been broken through the wrist, and a metal strip screwed in behind the lifter to reinforce the stock. Being of one of the lower grades and with a cut off and broken and repaired stock, my guess would be the best you could hope for at a gun show would be a couple of hundred dollars.

I don't know about you, but if I had a shotgun from my Grandfather, I'd keep it and treasure it as a family heirloom. There are millions of Model 700s out there, but how many of the few thousand Model 1878s have survived 125 years?

gooseaholic · Post by **gooseaholic** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:50 pm

I here you about gramps... He's gone now, and I feel like he gave me a job to do... Hang on to what he gave me for as long as I can, then choose the next family member and trust they will do the same. I must say though... Once you posted "Heavy Duck Gun", This old side by side's fate was double sealed! I'm absolutely hooked on waterfowl in an obsessive sort of way. You are welcome to check out my blind and other pictures at
http://profiles.yahoo.com/quakwacker It will be clear how insane I become from September to December...
Here are a couple of pics from the bottom side. I hope I got the right spot.
I also tried to get a good shot of the pattern in the metal, hoping that might help too...
The only numbers on the barrles are what looks like a 6 on top of the lug where the wedge goes through, then there is 37 on the same lug, just on the bottom part of it. Each barrel has a 3, then there is the serial number on the flat part. I took a pic of the receiver. The serial number is listed twice, then there is 37. The other mark has me a bit confused. It's some upsidedown looking J, then a 1. It's definatly a 1, as I look at it through a magnafier. Then there is the patent information. The metal thats on the fore stock also has the same 37, along with the serail#. Was that the employee? As for the repair job on the top of the stock, I thought it was original. It's layed in there pretty good.

Researcher · Post by **Researcher** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:33 pm

What pattern I can see on those barrels in your pictures looks like Damascus to me. In later E. Remington & Sons models the Laminated barrels were dropped and the Grade 3 had Damascus barrels. I see several numeral 3s here and there in your pictures, so until a better guess comes along I'll go with the idea that your gun is a Grade 3.

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