Remington - Percussion Heavy Target Barrel dating help?

[Scratch]

Hi guys. So here's what I've got; a mid-late 19th Century heavy barrel target rifle built on a Civil War Burnside Carbine lock. Obviously it was made after 1860 given the production of the lock, but I'm hoping to narrow the date down. The octagon barrel is Remington-made, weighs almost 20 lb. It is marked simply "REMINGTON", and "AW FOSTER" (the latter I presume to be the individual gunmaker not associated with Remington). I'm hoping this Remington stamp can be associated with a particular period of production. Anyone have a clue for me as to when this barrel might have been made?

[Scratch]

Hm. Kinda quiet. I did find this quote that might have some bearing:

"In 1837, Eliphalet Remington’s son Philo came of age and entered his father’s business--which became E. Remington & Son. In 1839, son Samuel entered the business--which now became E. Remington & Sons---a name that continued to be used until 1888, despite the death of the founder in 1861.[...] Eliphalet Remington stamped his rifle barrels REMINGTON near the breech. Remington markings in straight line and half-moon shape are known, but the exact significance of the form is not known. It is thought that the curved form is the earlier of the two markings. Flintlock and percussion barrels have been found with Remington’s stamping underneath, on one of the bottom flats, hidden from view when the stock is fitted. This was the individual choice of a gunsmith to hide the barrel maker’s name, as he assembled the barrel into his finished gun. If a name is exposed, it is customarily that of the gunsmith who made the rifle." -- Roy Marcot's book "REMINGTON- America's Oldest Gunmaker"

The breech stamp is also mentioned here: http://herkimer.nygenweb.net/ilion/RemingtonStory2.html

If my reading of this is correct, it would indicate a simple, straight-line "REMINGTON" stamp near the breach (without the later mention of his sons, which at least in some cases would be marked "P. & S. REMINGTON"), would be the work done under Eliphalet, thus dating it to 1861 at the latest, but likely earlier.

[M36]

Hm. Kinda quiet

Thats an understatement, found out the same thing on the thread I started.

[ehull]

Author/dealer Frank Sellers must have seen your rifle. He mentions "A W FOSTER" in his book on American gunsmiths, but says "unlocated."
While many gunsmiths used back action locks, to be ID'd as a Burnside - or Spencer or Peabody - one of those would have to be a drop in fit. If the lockplate fit is exact then Foster must have been in the vicinity of Bristol/Providence, RI or Boston.

[Scratch]

I've been doing some serious sleuthing on this the past few weeks, and I've IDed the gunmaker. In the archives of Bowling Green State University I found a listing for a 1970 recording of "Conversation with Orlo Foster, grandson of A. W. Foster (Whitey) [sic] early gunmaker of Columbia, Williams County, Ohio", and sent off for a copy. In spite of it being the worst interview ever (the interviewer, who is mostly there to hear the sound of his own voice, is fixed on asking metalugical questions that could be answered in any basic blacksmithing text...a wasted opportunity IMO), when the 90ish yo Orlo manages to get a word in edgewise he states his grandfather "Whiting" made only precision heavy-barreled target rifles (capable of shooting off a duck's head from across the lake) built with outsourced locks, that he went into business after the demise of the flintlock in Columbia OH, and that he stamped his barrels with "AW FOSTER" at the midway point on the top flat of the barrel. The Civil War did come up in the conversation, but unfortunately the interviewer wasted his time asking poor Orlo questions related to flintlocks and metallic cartridge rifles, (though the interviewer seems confused a bit by the difference between flintlocks and percussion) which Orlo repeatedly told him his grandfather didn't work with, either at that time or earlier.

Now that I had a positive identification of a name, a rough timeframe, a place and a confirmed relative, it wasn't hard to track AW Foster down. I arrived here:

"WHITING FOSTER, a pioneer of William County, was born in Portage County, Ohio, March 30, 1822, and is the eldest of three children born to Cyrus and Ruth (Day) Foster. He is a blacksmith and gun maker by trade, at which he has been working since he was twenty-two years of age. When quite young, he was brought by his parents to Huron County; in 1844, he moved to Steuben County, Ind.; in 1849 he came to this township and settled in the northeastern part, where there were but few inhabitants, and most of his time was passed in hunting; in 1860, he moved to Columbia and engaged in blacksmithing, at which he has been quite successful. He was married, December 30, 1846, to Sophia Johnson of Orleans County, N.Y., and they have had a family of four children, of whom three are still living -- Sarah, born August 22, 1849; Mary, born April 3, 1854, William, born June 9, 1855; they are all married and living in this county."

- County of Williams, Ohio: Historical and Biographical, with an Outline Sketch of the Northwest Territory, of the State, and Miscellaneous Matters, Weston A. Goodspeed & Charles Blanchard, F.A Battery & Co, (1882), pg 812.

http://books.google.com/books?id=YYI8AA ... dq=whiting foster blacksmith ohio&source=bl&ots=uMiF3dkko5&sig=yhB5W6z9jr625Q10FnaOQfudVls&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8sBGVN_bF8-BygTxz4GQCw&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=whiting foster blacksmith ohio&f=false

Albert Whiting Foster was born in 1821/2, died 1893.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cg ... =111311365

Interestingly, there is also a William P. Foster (same first name as Whiting's son and Orlo's father, but born earlier, in 1832) who served in the 5th Independent Co. Ohio Sharpshooters during the war, mustering out in Nashville Tennessee (about 80 miles East from where I found this rifle - also in TN, and where it had apparently been for some time) in 1865. I'm not done researching, but it would be interesting to find if there was a family connection between AW Foster and William P. Foster. Maybe a brother? So far my efforts to track down this specific Wm/William P. Foster beyond his CW records and a possible tombstone have gone cold, and I can't seem to dig any further back on AW either to see if he had a brother of that name. We'll see what turns up in the coming weeks though.

Hopefully this info being up here on this forum will make it easier to find on a search engine so the next person with an AW Foster rifle who wants to learn it's origins doesn't have to cover as much ground as I have. They are out there. Here is one AW Foster Northern Target Rifle that is up for auction at Cowan's (ending tomorrow) that is in better shape than mine, has the false muzzle, and at least is starting off with a price that is a good deal cheaper than what I spent. Maybe the buyer will find this thread someday!

https://www.proxibid.com/asp/LotDetail. ... d=21583541

http://www.cowanauctions.com/auctions/i ... ?id=144579

[ehull]

That's some excellent research. Glad you're a member here.

[admin]

Hm. Kinda quiet. I did find this quote that might have some bearing:

"In 1837, Eliphalet Remington’s son Philo came of age and entered his father’s business--which became E. Remington & Son. In 1839, son Samuel entered the business--which now became E. Remington & Sons---a name that continued to be used until 1888, despite the death of the founder in 1861.[...] Eliphalet Remington stamped his rifle barrels REMINGTON near the breech. Remington markings in straight line and half-moon shape are known, but the exact significance of the form is not known. It is thought that the curved form is the earlier of the two markings. Flintlock and percussion barrels have been found with Remington’s stamping underneath, on one of the bottom flats, hidden from view when the stock is fitted. This was the individual choice of a gunsmith to hide the barrel maker’s name, as he assembled the barrel into his finished gun. If a name is exposed, it is customarily that of the gunsmith who made the rifle." -- Roy Marcot's book "REMINGTON- America's Oldest Gunmaker"

The breech stamp is also mentioned here: http://herkimer.nygenweb.net/ilion/RemingtonStory2.html

If my reading of this is correct, it would indicate a simple, straight-line "REMINGTON" stamp near the breach (without the later mention of his sons, which at least in some cases would be marked "P. & S. REMINGTON"), would be the work done under Eliphalet, thus dating it to 1861 at the latest, but likely earlier.

What caliber?

[Scratch]

What caliber?

I believe it is a .45, or thereabouts. Typical size for this style of gun.