Remington #1 Sporting Rifle Deer Harvest!

[lardog]

Thanks to all of you on the Remington Society who have helped me learn about the #1 Sporting Rifle. As far as I am concerned it is one of the finest rifles ever manufactured! Thanks again.

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[oldremguy]

Lardog,

Thats one nice deer and one great looking sporting rifle.
Thanks for sharing the photo with us.

Have a Good Day,
Matt

[lardog]

You are very welcome Matt!

[Yellowhouse]

44-77?

load specs?

Nice deer!

[lardog]

Yellowhouse,

Its actually a 45-70 with a 300 grain bullet loaded with about 32 grains of Hodgdon powder. Could have taken a lot more but I wanted to keep the pressure down. Hence the 300 grain bullet and minimal powder charge.

BTW I have a quick question for you about the 44-77. I have a mid-range target rifle chambered for the 44 Sharps round. I was under the impression that's the same as the 44-77 Rem. Is that true?

[Yellowhouse]

Nice deer! I just don't have the guts to pour any smokeless whatsoever through mine.

Remington generally stamped the barrel .44S denoting 44-77 and 44RS to designate their 44-90. However, only a chamber cast will tell you for sure.

[lardog]

Thank you sir. I'll have to do that when I get some free time!

[Yellowhouse]

44-77 Rem and 44-77 sharps are one and the same. There is argument about who came up with it first. However, be aware that chamber dimensions will vary. For sure, they didn't share reamers and there were no SAAMI specs.

I've heard some argue that the RS can mean the 44-77 loaded with 90 gr of BP but I don't know. It was factory loaded with that amount at one time. With a PPB, you can certainly get that much powder in there and maybe a little more. I've loaded mine with 85 gr and can tell you that you better hold on to your hat when you torch it off in a relatively light sporter.

I'm going to stick with the RS as denoting the 44-90 Remington Special and has all together different dimensions than the Sharps 44-90.

[lardog]

Well, I chamber casted it tonight yellowhouse and it is indeed a 44-77 or at least the overal length is consistent. I didn't have my calipers so I could only get the roughly 2 1/4 measurement. If you don't mind me asking what is the difference between the 44-77 rem and sharps measurement wise. I would like to eventually reload for it and don't want to have a mess up! Its set up more for distance shooting than my 45-70 is the only reason I want to shoot it.

Many thanks

Oh didn't catch the saami specs part of your post. If that answers my question, never mind

[Yellowhouse]

Ones I've seen will chamber any FL sized round so its really not a problem. Now if we're out on the buffalo range and you try to use some of my reloads in your rifle, whether the same make or not, there might be a problem cause they didn't have FL sizers back then. However, that scenario holds for modern firearms of the same caliber as well. I did have a first year (1965)Rem 700 22-250 that would chamber anybodys once fired or neck sized brass...but thats uncommon.

BTW, if you're going to reload for it, better get some correct headstamped 44-77 brass from Jamison International while its still available. They made a special run of it and has the proper rim and neck thickness. While you're at it start looking for a RCBS 44-370 mold if GG bullets are on your mind. I mentioned neck thickness as brass having too thick necks will not allow you to chamber a .446 bullet. Likewise, if yours is like most it will have a .451 groove. Sounds odd doesn't it but these old guns were set up to shoot paper patched bullets to begin with. Yep, you'll need to slug the bore too and make a wild guessimate trying to get a correct reading on that five groove bullet.

You may be able to get the bore measurements off your chamber casting though.

I encourage you to consider start using BP in your old rollers not only to be on the safe side but its more fun. Also, those are pretty soft barrels by modern standards and a steady diet of jacketed bullets will wear the bore.

[lardog]

That was a wealth of knowledge there yellowhouse and much appreciated. Am already at work following your advice, probably gonna buy some blackhorn 209 to start with. Am I going to have the same problems when I go to reload my 40-70 BN as the 44-77 or will the regular commercial dies, brass, bullets, etc. be sufficient for it?

Thanks again and have a great day!

[Yellowhouse]

If you're talking about the Rollers and the 40-70 Remington BN it is slightly different at the shoulder than the Sharps version. Other than lathe turned brass from Rocky Mountain Cartridge, the only source I know of for either is stretched and reformed 45-70 cases available from Buffalo Arms (BACO). Dies for all these are quite pricey and available from CH4-D. I have a set of RCBS 44-77 dies I picked up years ago and still am recovering from the $ shock.

Fact is, unless I shoot greasers, I rarely ever use dies since I mostly paper patch. After fireforming, all I really need is a universal decapper.

Reloading for all these is an education in itself as each rifle is different. I'd suggest a forum like this one thats not rough on newbies.

http://forums.handloads.com/forum_topics.asp?FID=19

The link may not open as is but you can go to handloads.com and look for BPCR-Black Powder Rifle Cartridges.

Also, I think you would benefit and enjoy having a copy of Mike Venturino's "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West". It gives a lot of how to on loading. Then you can expand from there.

[Yellowhouse]

Here's a couple more sites.

This one has a library or subforum under each major heading and has a lot of info. The Dark Side, Casting and Reloading, and Billy Dixon forums will be of interest. http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/


http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index. ... ,77.0.html

Then there is www.bpcr.net . On opening the home page go to forums.

[rustyrelx]

I'm not sure blackhorn will "bump" up a bullet as its a smokeless powder albeit a black powder substitute. Black powder is better.

[charlielima]

First off I am no "expert" (former drip?) on these matters, so, for what it is worth- the old dead guys & Sharps factory in particular used Fg black powder. Granted the stuff we have now is not up to snuff compared to the quality of the old Sharps or Curtis & Harvey they had, but------. Lots of the target crowd are enamored with Swiss, but GOEX is made in the USA. I use GOEX Express Fg in all my BPCR rifles. Considering that my eyeballs are almost 70 yrs old, a cataract in my shooting eye and barrel sights, GOEX holds well under minute of deer/elk/etc at any normal hunting range.
I save my smokeless stuff for any rifle made, or commonly in use, after 1895.
CL