Model 32F Dilemma

Topics related to Post - 1898 Remington Shotguns
Kman-5455
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 pm

Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Kman-5455 » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:50 pm

Own a factory engraved Model 32F serial #2805. Gun's serial number places it late 1936 but was probably completed (engraved) early 1937. The engraver was Carl Ennis whose initial ('E') shows up on both sides of the receiver. Carl was known for engraving dog's with attitude. Gun was originally supplied with a 30" Imp Mod/Full barrel with a 32" being added early 1980. The gun was sent to del Grego early 1980 where it was fitted with a Remington factory barrel (stock purchased by Babe del Grego from the Remington factory) and numbered to the gun. The engraving on the 32" barrel was done by Bob Runge to match the original 30" barrel.

Here is the dilemma and therefore, question to the Society - This Model 32 is original in that the barrels/receiver/trigger guard, forend iron have not been re-blued. The gun has not been screwed-up with restoration 'experts' trying to make it look good. The barrels are still rust blued the sliding top latch having turned a pretty plum, etc. The issue is now the release lever is at 6 o'clock and both barrels are slightly off face. It is still shootable but probably not for long. To make it right will require the barrel ears and barrel hangers to be tig welded which will require barrels to be re-rust blued.

I am not a collector and this gun is great to shoot. Should I put it in the safe or make it right (repair and continue using it)?

Virginian
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:03 pm
Location: Williamsburg, Va.

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Virginian » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:33 am

I would fix it and shoot it, but I'm the same guy that took a brand new unfired unturned Colt SAA 2nd generation nickle .44 Special out of the box and went right out and shot a box full of ammo. I am not above buying a gun because it has or will gain significant value, but above all I buy guns to shoot them. I take care of them, but they don't sit in the safe.
How much available travel is there in the lever beyond 6 o'clock? I'm not a 32 expert. I had a Rossi SxS that had some wear, and I cut a bronze shim that put it back on face and I shot a lot of rounds, kept an eye on that, and never had a problem. I realize that is not a "repair" but a patch, but it did work. Led me to believe the original owner hadn't kept it lubed correctly, but I don't know that. If I intended to keep it for a long time, I would get it done right.
I do not trust Remington's dating service. If they were Match.com, you could end up with Nancy Pelosi.

What could have happened... did.

Researcher
Posts: 947
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2003 11:06 pm
Location: Washington and Alaska

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Researcher » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:09 pm

I'm not a Model 32 expert by any means, but wouldn't the factory method of putting it back on face be to put in a size or two larger "Joint Pins" part number 95 left, part number 96 right? Just like putting a Parker Bros. back on face by replacing the joint roll with a slightly larger one? Are Del Grego's out of parts?

Kman-5455
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Kman-5455 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:55 am

True in the old days, before tig welding existed, putting in oversized trunions and over sized top latches was the only way to tighten a Model 32. Obviously, that would require changing parts. Tig welding the barrel ears and the barrel hooks puts the gun back to original condition without having to change parts.

With the development of tig welding all repairs are done and barrels are re-rust blued.

Kman-5455
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Kman-5455 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:18 am

One other issue is that the hinge pins/trunions and oversized top latch would have to be engraved and then blued. Engraving the new parts would be costly and would be non-factory engraving.

User avatar
DavidFagan
Posts: 368
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2002 9:08 pm
Location: Glen Ellyn, Illinois
Contact:

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by DavidFagan » Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:41 am

I've been sitting back sort of watching this but...

If I had a 32F (factory) has to be rarer then snot, there's just absolutely no way I would have it refinished and flush thousands of dollars down the drain, if I just had to have a 32 to shoot (and I do) I'd go buy another one for this at a faction of that loss for this.
David J. Fagan
The Silicon Sorcerer

Kman-5455
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Kman-5455 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:50 pm

David I agree!

The gun is currently 9 thousandths off face with the 30" barrel and 18 thousandths off face with the 32" barrel. The top latch has about 15% more wear before something has to be done. As a weekend shooter it will probably last my life time.

FYI - In my opinion Remington never had barrels 100% on face (based on having taken measurements from guns in my collection).

Once I learn how to post pictures I'll attach a few for reference/consideration.

Kman-5455
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Kman-5455 » Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:02 pm

Pictures of the 32F - Sorry for the picture quality!!
Attachments
IMG_0251[1].jpg
IMG_0251[1].jpg (107.26 KiB) Viewed 5079 times
IMG_0250[1].jpg
IMG_0250[1].jpg (97.96 KiB) Viewed 5079 times
IMG_0249[1].jpg
IMG_0249[1].jpg (95.04 KiB) Viewed 5079 times

telluride
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:20 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by telluride » Sun Oct 19, 2014 1:06 pm

Love your dilemma. Could you post some photos of the wood, please? I'm having a stock made, and would like a some reference so the maker can try and copy the factory design.
Beautiful gun.

Kman-5455
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Kman-5455 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 2:10 pm

Unfortunately, the gun is at the stock maker having a leather covered recoil pad installed. The original Hawkins pad looked like white walls on a Ferrari; I am keeping it of course in case I ever decide to sell the gun. I will post detail photos as soon as I get it back which should be early next week.

The attached photo is poor at best buy at least gives outline of checkering.
IMG_0252[1].jpg
IMG_0252[1].jpg (77.72 KiB) Viewed 5049 times

lowgun
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:57 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by lowgun » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:29 pm

I would contact Krieghoff USA in Ottsville, PA and ask them how they approach this problem with a highly engraved gun. By the way, I have Krieghoffs that are off face, but are tight. Krieghoff gunsmiths have told me to continue to shoot , it is no problem. Is your gun tight when closed? Headspace is highly overrated in shotguns being fired with compression formed shells, even with two piece shells.

Kman-5455
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Kman-5455 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:21 pm

Did one better, I sent it to Larry Del Grego who validated it originality and then sent it to Dan Lammers in Reading California. Dan is a 20 year Krieghoff master gunsmith and the guy Krieghoff sends things that pre-date K-32 serial #1500. Early K-32s used Remington 32 parts. In my opinion Dan is the best gunsmith in the country when it comes to early Krieghoffs and Remington 32s.

Dan performed a thorough inspection and gave me a thumbs up as far as safety. If I wanted to bring it back to new it would require some tig welding of the barrel hooks and barrel wings/ears and re-rust bluing the barrels. As discussed in an earlier thread the Remington factory method (pre-tig technology) would have involved installing over sized trunions (hinge pins) and putting in an over sized sliding top latch. The 'factory' solution would require significant non-factory engraving and as such is a non-start.

Since the gun is safe and will be used sparingly I plan on keeping it 100% original.

lowgun
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:57 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by lowgun » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:55 am

Is your gun tight when closed? Thanks for telling us about your gunsmith. Does Dan solve problems with Model 32 Remington triggers?

Kman-5455
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Kman-5455 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:14 am

Not sure what you mean. Gun is extremely tight but off face by .009 and .018 depending on which barrel is on. If you take hold of the barrel while in the receiver without the forend and break the gun open it does not wobble.

Regarding Dan I bet you would be amazed at who takes credit for his work! He is great with triggers.

Kman-5455
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:35 pm

Re: Model 32F Dilemma

Post by Kman-5455 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:36 am

I have 11 other 32s and I pulled off the top latch on 5 and put a feeler gauge between the standing breech and the barrel face. All 32s checked (all original and 95 percent condition) and all are technically off face. I believe Remington 32s were lose from the factory. My Rem 32E and 32D each have .008 between breech and barrel.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests