14R and 14 1/2

[OntRem]

After reading a great deal on this forum I decided to take the plunge and start collecting some model 14's. I have several other Remington rifles, and reload for a variety of calibers. Something just appealed to me with the Model 14 and anything that I aquire I fully intend on using.

I picked up a Model 14R in 30 rem, s/n 722XX, matching s/n on trigger assembly. From what I can determine it should be either 1919, or 1920 made ?? I was able to pick up some original ammunition at a gun show this past weekend.

I also aquired a model 14 1/2 in 44-40 s/n 332XX, the trigger assembly s/n is not the same , it is s/n 327XX. It has the Dominion of Canada proof stamp on the barrel which I am assuming would make it part of the 4000 order that Great Britian made in 1914.
This gun had the remains of the bakelite butt plate, unfortunately I will need to find one of those.
I have a question, just above and forward of the ammunition indicator the reciever has been stamped C46. Does anyone know if this is just some random stamping or if it has a meaning ??

I have attempted to add a couple of photos.

Thanks

Jeff

[oneoldsap]

I've never seen that C46 stamp before . It has to be propritery , an ID of some type , C for Can. maybe ? Nice guns by the way ! I have an old friend , that has some nice 14s and Rs , he's been picking them up since the fortys !

[nambujim]

Tom Hemphill is the world authority on dating guns by identifying/dating the countless changes that were made but 72xxx falls into the range of serials attributed to 1920 but you probably have read that Remington didn't necessarily produce these rifles in numerical order.

Mixed serials on DCP guns are not uncommon and the number on your frame is quite common (or some variation of it), usually thought to be a "rack number" or some type of inventory ID. Almost all the ones I have seen have a letter with a 2 or 3 digit number.

Bakelite buttplates were pretty rare to begin with, few survive because they are so brittle. It is VERY hard to find a decent replacement, there are some reproductions out there that I think are nylon and quite good. I have used some from Vintage Gun Grips in Florida, their model number for the one that fits the 14/14-1/2 is "12a" and they will require fitting, failing that you can "probably" use a steel shotgun plate but the stock is probably worn and they might be a bit long.

Those are nice rifles, both are fun to shoot, hope this has been helpful.
If you hear from Hemphill, he will ask you for particulars including full serials on those guns to add to his ever growing data base on Model 14, 14-1/2, 141, and 25. Tom's a good man but lives in northern Minnesota and has been in the deep freeze for about a month so he might be a bit cranky................actually Tom is never cranky and this Sunday is his birthday..........HAPPY BIRTHDAY TOM!

Jim Peterson
Charlotte, NC

[OntRem]

Thank you for the information. Tom has been in touch with me as well. It is interesting in regards to the "rack numbers" being stamped onto the guns. Would be curious to find out what exactly the purpose and meaning that number has...

Thanks

Jeff

[nambujim]

The two (2) DCP guns I acquired over the years actually came out of Australia, had similar numbers stamped on them, and anyone associated with doing it is long gone so I think your chances of finding something definitive are slim.................just a lot of speculation.

Yeah, Tom's a good man and a good friend! I knew he would give you what information he could!

Stay warm!

Jim Peterson
Charlotte, NC

[AlanD]

Quite a number of the British Admiralty contact DCP marked Model 14 1/2 44/40 rifles do have this style of rack number on the side of the frame.
Without digging out my notes I think the letters (with numerals following) that have been observed are A, B & C. Tom or Ken will see this and refresh my memory hopefully.

The letter would signify a Naval Armament Depot which the rifle had been allocated too and the rack number was used for stock taking, rather than the serial number. Unfortunately, the NAD which corresponds to each letter is not currently known.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney
Australia

[rem141]

AlanD, after reviewing our emails over the past few years, I found that the letter D was also used and that surplus Model 14.5 DCP guns were picked up at these facalities after the war. Your email ______" On the rifles page you will see that 3857 rifles are held in 4 main locations: Priddys Hard, Plymouth, Chatam (miss-spelt as Catham) and Kidbrooke. The first three locations are all Royal Navy depots. R.N.A.D. stands for Royal Naval Armament Depot. Kidbrooke was an army storage facility. D.B.4.A3. was the name of a section within a government department, they seem to have held one example of each type of weapon for reference purposes"_______ .
Alan David has done extensive research on Small Arms used by the UK in WWI including the Remington Model 14.5 DCP guns. He has provided documented proof of the purchasing contract, the inspection at Ilion, the dispersal in the UK, and the disposal of the DCP guns after the war. Tom Hemphill and I are hoping for an article by Alan to appear in the journal soon.
Ken Blauch

[OntRem]

Very interesting information. Did the 14.5 DCP's ever get issued from the depots in Great Britian to the personel ? Or did they stay in the depots for the duration of the war and then get sold surplus after ?

Thanks
Jeff

[AlanD]

Yes, the rifles were issued to miscellaneous craft by the Admiralty for defence against mines but also for use against German E and U boats. This was during WW1 so it is likely they would have seen some use at sea. The rifles would have been issued from store on a rotation basis.The rack numbers would make keeping track of the rifles a lot easier than long serial numbers.

Apart from the Remington Model 14 1/2 rifles, the (British) Admiralty also purchased 4,500 Remington 7mm rolling block rifles. Also 20,000 Winchester Model 1892 .44/40 SRC's and 5,000 Model 30WCF SRC's. There is one documented account of a seaman opening fire on a German U boat at a range of 150 yards, with a 'Winchester repeater'. If it was a Model 1894 it may have caused some damage, I don't think the 44/40 would do much at that range, other than deterrence.
Regards

Alan David
Sydney

[green]

Has anyone ever examined a 14 1/2 DCP with British commercial proof maks? I have examined M92, M94 Winchesters and Rem 14 1/2 with the DCP mark and not one had British commercial proofs which is required on arms in private hands in Britain.

[AlanD]

I agree. All the Remington Model 14 1/2 rifles and Winchester Model 1892 & 1894 SRC's which are DCP marked have been devoid of British commercial proof marks. However, all the examples I have seen have been in New Zealand or Australia. I suspect that these examples were exported shortly after being sold by the British government in the late 1920's.Strictly speaking they should have been reproofed at London or Birmingham, but this did not happen. I would expect an example still in the UK to have picked up commercial proof marks along the way.

Regards

AlanD
Sydney