Rolling block Carbine 43 Spanish

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ccdnh88
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:23 am

Rolling block Carbine 43 Spanish

Post by ccdnh88 »

I am looking for information on a Remington Arms Company, 43 Spanish RB
carbine. It has a 20.5” barrel, 1 ring on forearm with “U” stamp, “US” stamped on the left side of the receiver, under the stock on the upper & lower tang there are numbers stamped over numbers, the original numbers do not match but the over stamped numbers match. I will include a picture, if anyone can offer any information about the history of this rifle, it would be appreciated.
Added second picture of marking on barrel under forearm. Can anyone I’d this marking?
Thank you
Attachments
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C72688B1-7A03-4D05-B803-922998519BC2.jpeg (843.92 KiB) Viewed 1418 times
Last edited by ccdnh88 on Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
wlw-19958
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Rolling block Carbine 43 Spanish

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,

With the information given (and the pics provided), there
isn't much to go on. The only piece of information I can
give you right now is about the "U" on the barrel band.

Starting in the 1830's or 1840's, the U.S. military started
marking the barrel bands with the letter "U" to show how
to properly orient the band. With the rifle placed in a
vertical position, with the barrel pointing up and butt on
the ground, the barrel band is placed so that the letter "U"
is right-side-up. It literately means "UP."

Some more pics showing the whole action, both sides and
a top down pic showing the breach open and tang marking
will help with identification. It is possible you have one of
the USN rifles that were sold as surplus. Manny were bought
by Hartley & Graham and re-barreled from 50 caliber to 43
and reconfigured to be carbines. They were sold to the
Dominican Republic but without more pics and info, there
isn't anyway to tell. If you have a copy of George Layman's
book: Remington Rolling Block Military Rifles of the World,
there is a picture of one on page 178.

The remarking of the upper and lower tang could have been
done anytime after leaving the Factory.

Good Luck!
Webb
ccdnh88
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:23 am

Re: Rolling block Carbine 43 Spanish

Post by ccdnh88 »

Webb, thank you for the reply, here I am attaching additional pictures.
Attachments
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434ACD9A-A21F-4B98-8380-640B5350CB40.jpeg
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wlw-19958
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Rolling block Carbine 43 Spanish

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,

The additional pics help. Unfortunately, it is not a USN
model. In fact the "US" on the left hand side appear
spurious to me. The US marking should be on the right
hand side plus there would be other inspector stamps
all over. Otherwise, it looks to be a very good condition.

This is a late type 2 action. It is believed that the type 2
was phased out in 1871 but this isn't certain. Your breech
block is the flat type which replaced the concave breech
block in August 1870.

Also, your extractor is the bar type (also called the slide
extractor). The USN carbine used a concave breech block
with the early stud extractor.

Your carbine appears to be correct for a factory carbine.
It has the correct front and rear sights and forend stock.
Less than 5% of the Rolling Blocks made at Remington were
carbines. Seeing that your carbine is .43 Spanish, I would
suspect this to be part of the 3rd. Spanish contract or one
of the many Central and South American countries that
purchased Rolling Blocks during the later 1800's.

Seeing the tang markings (which changed over time) would
also be informative.

Good Luck!
Webb
ccdnh88
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:23 am

Re: Rolling block Carbine 43 Spanish

Post by ccdnh88 »

Well, once again thank you for the information, I find it all very interesting.
I am attaching a picture of the tang, containing the patent information.
From what I have read, doesn’t the “Remington Arms Company” indicate that this type 2 carbine would have been made after the bankruptcy in 1886-1888?
Do you recognize the stamped mark on the barrel, kind of looks like the letter
“P”? Could this be a proof mark or inspectors stamp?
Thank you very much
Gary
Attachments
6BEC5CC2-B66E-49E9-9DD2-5C9F107A9F0D.jpeg
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wlw-19958
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Rolling block Carbine 43 Spanish

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,

You are correct that the tang markings indicate an 1888 or
later manufacturing date. It is unusual to see a type 2 action
that late. By that time, the type 4 action was well into pro-
duction (having been brought out prior to the bankruptcy).

Do you have a micrometer or a dial caliper to measure the
thickness of the receiver? I am wondering if your carbine is
possibly a light weight carbine (A.K.A. "Baby Carbine"). These
were thinner than the standard #1 (which measure about 1.312"
in thickness). They were built on actions that are about the
same thickness as the #1-1/2 action (which I believe was about
1.14" thick).

There isn't that much known about the light weight carbines.
They first appeared in the Remington catalogs just prior to the
bankruptcy. Many of the Remington records were lost during
the transition of ownership after the sale. At that time, both
Whitney Firearms and Remington were making this light weight
carbine and both companies fell into bankruptcy and were
purchased by the same investors (Marcellus Hartley and Winchester).

Winchester's motivation for investing was to stop the sale of the
Whitney-Kennedy lever action rifle and eliminate it from competition
(Winchester wanted to be the only manufacturer of lever action
guns and buying companies in bankruptcy gave them control of
the patents on those other lever action rifles).

Measure the thickness (if you can) and report back.

Good Luck!
Webb
ccdnh88
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:23 am

Re: Rolling block Carbine 43 Spanish

Post by ccdnh88 »

Webb,

Thanks again, I am very appreciative with you taking the time to share this information with me. I did measure the receiver in 2 different areas, in does measures 1.312 - 1.313 in both places. So this gives me something new to think about, “Baby Carbine”

Thank you
ccdnh88
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:23 am

Re: Rolling block Carbine 43 Spanish

Post by ccdnh88 »

Webb,
I re-read your last post, It looks like I have a 1.312, standard #1 not
A Baby Carbine, My gun is 7.4 lbs.
Thanks
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