Calling Rolling Block Experts

Topics related to Pre - 1898 Remington Rifles
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Robert Henley
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:26 pm

Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by Robert Henley »

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Need some experts to help ID my Remington Rolling Block. Numrick Arms .45-70.

From researching I believe Numrick Arms made kits with the new barrel and stocks.

The serial number, which is hidden behind the stock, is a low number three digit 1xx.

Can the experts advise what my Remington is and its value? I know from researching the action was very strong and could handle smokeless ammo.

What ammo would you recommend me using to fire it?

Thanks for your assistance,

Robert
wlw-19958
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,

I believe what you have is a later rolling block action.
They are called the No. 5 action and these were made
for higher pressure cartridges (like 7x57) originally.

Seeing that yours has the bar type extractor, it is an
earlier version (made from 1896 to around 1901 or 1902).
In 1902, the action was updated to the Day extractor
system that was more like an ejector than an extractor
(it will kick a spent shell completely out of the action).

The number stamped on the left side of the tang is not
the serial number. It is a lot number. Rolling blocks were
made in lots ranging from 10,000 to 35,000 units. Once
a lot was completed, the numbering was restarted in the
next lot. frames and trigger guards were mated and the
lot number made it easier to keep the two parts together
through manufacturing process.

As to value, I feel inhibited to put a price on it. It is mostly
subjective to the whims of the market. 45-70 is a popular
cartridge and the rise of BPCR shooting has made rolling
blocks in large BP calibers more popular (but I don't know
the quality of the Numrich Arms barrels and their suitability
to this sport). The action by itself is probably worth between
$300 to $500. The rest will depend on the quality of the work
done.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
Last edited by wlw-19958 on Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Robert Henley
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:26 pm

Re: Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by Robert Henley »

Thank-you for the response. I looked the No. 5 up in my 39th Blue Book, and it indicates on p. 1548 "Very few made - possibly only 300." The values are pretty high.

Please keep the responses and assessments coming.

Robert
wlw-19958
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,
Robert Henley wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 6:42 am Thank-you for the response. I looked the No. 5 up in my 39th Blue Book, and it indicates on p. 1548 "Very few made - possibly only 300." The values are pretty high.
That is ridiculous! many tens of thousands of #5 rolling
blocks were made. Most were 7mm Spanish Mauser
(7X57) caliber. Other calibers are more rare (depending
on the caliber). According to the sales records of Shuyler,
Hartley & Graham, one of the largest distributors of
Remington rolling blocks, they sold over 40 thousand #5's
in 7X57 between 1896 and 1901. This does not include
#5's bought directly from Remington.


Seeing that yours has been re-barreled and stocks have been
changed, original caliber is moot.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
Robert Henley
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:26 pm

Re: Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by Robert Henley »

OK, I'll disregard the note then in the 39th Blue Book.

Thanks for the information.

Robert

P.S., I was looking at this Black Hills Cowboy load for it: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/100190084?pid=860270

Seems tamer than some of the other loads. I assume it would be OK?
marlinman93
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:47 pm

Re: Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by marlinman93 »

The mistake in the Bluebook of Gun Values might be based on the difference between #5 military rifles and #5 Sporting Rifles. The #5 in a Sporting Rifle is very rare, but military versions are plentiful.}
Yours is a military that someone reworked into a Sporting Rifle. Possibly Numrich, since they built some, but they sold kits, so it could be someone else bought the kit and assembled it.
Prices vary according to how well the gun was done, and fit and finish, plus wood quality are big factors. Not to be mean, but your gun doesn't have professionally fitted wood, as the rounded edges where it meets metal are more amateur workmanship. And since it wasn't color cased again, that reflects a lower quality build also.
Hard to say a price, as the market will determine that. But I'd be pretty surprised if it got over $750 in today's market.
Robert Henley
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:26 pm

Re: Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by Robert Henley »

Thanks for the response and information.

I did see a Numrich sell recently on Gunbroker for $799:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/851134125

Not sure about the model and other features differences, but the caliber was .444 Marlin.

Robert
marlinman93
Posts: 288
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2004 10:47 pm

Re: Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by marlinman93 »

I think you might see the difference in that GB rifle's stock fit and the case colors on the receiver also. Not sure the .444 Marlin caliber might not add to the value or not? Some love the caliber, while others would prefer the .45-70.
wlw-19958
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,

Also, the one on GunBroker is a later #5 action
with the Day ejector system.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
aardq
Posts: 286
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:02 pm

Re: Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by aardq »

In reply to an above post about Shuyler, Hartley, and Graham being the largest distributor of Rem guns. They better be! They were the consortium, with Marcus Hartley as the head, that took over the bankrupt E Remington & Sons in 1888, and reformed it into Remington Arms Co. In other words, they were Remington Arms.

Dan
wlw-19958
Posts: 131
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Calling Rolling Block Experts

Post by wlw-19958 »

Hi There,
aardq wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:06 pmThey were the consortium, with Marcus Hartley as the head, that took over the bankrupt E Remington & Sons in 1888, and reformed it into Remington Arms Co. In other words, they were Remington Arms.
As I understand it, there were two principles in the
purchase of E. Remington and Sons. A partnership
between Hartley and Winchester. By what I have
read, Winchester was looking to sell their share by
1895.

As I understand the firearms sales of that period, if
a customer wanted to purchase over 10,000 arms,
they would buy directly from Remington, and lesser
contracts were handled by Hartley & Graham (by this
time, Shuyler had retired from the business).

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb
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