Civil war era Remington Musket with an Allin 2 conversion

Topics related to Pre - 1898 Remington Rifles
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Saltyrob
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:16 am

Civil war era Remington Musket with an Allin 2 conversion

Post by Saltyrob » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:29 am

Hello; I'm looking for information on an Allin 2nd Conversion using a Remington Muzzleloader. According to the claim reported to me, this conversion would have been done at the Springfield Armory by E.S. Allin or under his supervision. The claim being that during the Civil War there had been a small contract with Remington to make Muzzleloaders and that one or more (small number) had gotten mixed in with the shipment of Springfields made available to Allin for the 2nd conversion. To date I have not been able to find any evidence that this happened, nor have I found it mentioned in the 1st printing of "The .45-70 Springfield" by Frasca & Hill. Thank you for any replays, Salty

wlw-19958
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Civil war era Remington Musket with an Allin 2 conversion

Post by wlw-19958 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:21 pm

Hi There,

I am not an expert on the "Trapdoor" Springfield but
if this is one of the 1866 conversions, it should have
some unique features that would be readily identifiable.
I am assuming it is of the 1866 pattern based on your
description that it is from the second contract.

The first pattern or "trial" rifles were .58 rim-fire caliber
using the rack type extractor. 5,000 rifles were produced
for field trials. These were ordered in 1865.

The second pattern were different based on defects
uncovered in the trials of the first pattern. These
were .50 center-fire caliber and utilized a "U" spring
type extractor. 25,000 were ordered by the Secretary
of War in July of 1866.

So, it would be interesting to see some pictures of your
"2nd contract" Trapdoor. General Dyer ordered "to take
immediate measures for the conversion of 25,000 Springfield
muskets into breech-loaders of the best pattern..." The
term "Springfield muskets" may have been interpreted as
meaning a pattern of rifle instead of the manufacturer.
Of course, without examining the rifle in question, one
cannot be sure of it providence.

The entire enterprise was an exercise in economy because
the Federal Armories were overflowing with obsolete but
otherwise serviceable muzzle-loaders. The Civil War proved
the value of the breech loader that utilized self contained
metallic cartridges.

Most Foreign Governments were in the process of updating
their Armies to breech-loaders and there was pressure for
the U.S. to keep up with the wave of modernization taking
place in the World. But the U.S. had spend tremendous
amounts of money during the Civil War and now was reluctant
to spend more money to modernize. So, the Trapdoor was
looked upon as a cost effective means to an end.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

ehull
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 6:04 pm
Location: So. California

Re: Civil war era Remington Musket with an Allin 2 conversion

Post by ehull » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:13 pm

The model 1866 Allin conversion was accomplished at Springfield Armory on Springfield Model 1864 rifle muskets, not on Remington contract rifle muskets. The breechblock is dated 1866.
It is most likely that someone swapped out the lock and added a suitable hammer.
What are the inspectors cartouches on the stock’s left flat?

Saltyrob
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:16 am

Re: Civil war era Remington Musket with an Allin 2 conversion

Post by Saltyrob » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:15 pm

wlw If your interested in pictures of the rifle that ad claims to be you can see them on Guns International listing # 101242463. After more research on possibles and speaking with other Springfield Trapdoor collectors I am thinking this is more likely a Springfield Trapdoor with a Remington Lockplate. In any event, from the beginning I was thinking the ad was a something someone cobbled and tying to sell as something its not. But then, ya never know till you check things out.

wlw-19958
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Civil war era Remington Musket with an Allin 2 conversion

Post by wlw-19958 » Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:18 pm

Hi There,

The pictures do not cover details that would
identify it. I would like to see barrel proof
markings and acceptance cartouches to help
in identifying the donor rifle.

I think it is most likely just what others have
said. That is, it is a second pattern Allin
conversion of a Springfield that someone stuck
a Remington lock plate on.

Thanks for pointing it out to me but I'm more of
a roller fan.

Good Luck!
-Blue Chips-
Webb

ehull
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2003 6:04 pm
Location: So. California

Re: Civil war era Remington Musket with an Allin 2 conversion

Post by ehull » Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:12 pm

By the pics, that M1866 has been shortened to "cadet" size -- a sure hint that it is not original, but likely made up of parts.

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