Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

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oldremguy
Posts: 185
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:53 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

Post by oldremguy » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:44 pm

I have a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine receiver that I am trying to rebuild with original and reproduction parts.
Does anyone know what gun the sling bar may of been made from by Springfield Armory. From photos that I have seen, it looks like it could of been modified from a sharps carbine. In the book by Richard Hosmer "The .58- and .50 Caliber Rifles & Carbine of the Springfield Armory 1865-1872", it states that the sling bar on the trials carbine was 2.85 inches in length. I sold my 1863 Sharp's Carbine a few years ago so I can't measure one, If someone could help out with that length that would be great. I think I can come up the most of the parts, but I don't think I will ever find a correct barrel, will have to have one made.

Here are some photos of the receiver that I am rebuilding
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Here are some photos of a 1870 Trials Carbine that was sold at auction about 9 years ago.
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Will add more photos in a second post.

Thanks,
Matt
Last edited by oldremguy on Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

oldremguy
Posts: 185
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 8:53 am
Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

Post by oldremguy » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:55 pm

Here are some more photos of the parts that I had on hand to rebuild the 1870 Trials Carbine receiver so far.


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Here is a superimposed photo of the right side of the original carbine receiver over the receiver that I have.
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The buttstock that I put on the receiver was from a 1872 Sringfield Army rifle that someone sanded down and refinished. Will have to strip and re-stain it. Also will have to find the correct trigger guard.
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Thanks,
Matt
Last edited by oldremguy on Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dick Hosmer
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Re: Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

Post by Dick Hosmer » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:19 pm

The bar LOOKS to be about the same length as that on the Allin and Ward-Burton carbines made at the same time, though the front attachment would be different of course. Since what you are making isn't going to be "right" anyhow, such a bar might give you a good starting point. Such bars (in .45-cal) are readily available at moderate cost. You would have to file the face of the rear base flat. Of course you know that the forend and rear sight are special items. I do not own either a Remington or Sharps Trials carbine.As you know (and why you are doing what you are doing) the Remingtons are ultra-rare and super-expensive, and AFAIK, the Sharps items simply no longer exist. Good luck on your project!!

ehull
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Re: Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

Post by ehull » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:41 pm

Matt,
I, too, have such a project carbine: I have a mint condition frame, a few parts, wrong TG plate, no wood. From what I can tell, the Sharps bar is correct, and mine almost fits but the cylindrical end is too long to fit completely into the shallower hole in the frame. But that is easy to remedy. My issue is that the bolt which fits the frame hole to hold the front end of the bar does not fit the threaded hole in the bar; the threaded end is a bit too small. Therefore you will probably have to somehow correct that: weld and re-tap the hole, or get a special bolt made to order. Ed
Attachments
Frame right 2 copy.jpg
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Frame left 2 copy.jpg
Frame left 2 copy.jpg (193.31 KiB) Viewed 1752 times

oldremguy
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Location: Rochester, NY

Re: Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

Post by oldremguy » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:29 pm

I would like to thank Dick and Ed for the response to my question about sling bar. It looks like I will be looking for one from the Sharps carbine. I am planning on going to the Baltimore Antique Gun Show, so I am hoping to find the bar there and the screw for the Sharps bar. That way I will have the correct screw and thread size, so i can have the correct size retaining screw made to fit the rolling block frame.

Ed, that is one great looking frame. Thanks for sharing the photographs of it. Best of luck with your carbine project.

Have a Good Day,
Matt

Dick Hosmer
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Re: Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

Post by Dick Hosmer » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:29 am

WAAAAY back in the day (1980s?) someone, quite possibly S&S, advertised the proper forends. Don't know how many they had but it cannot have been a hot mover - maybe they still have one or two in some nook or cranny?

On a similar front, I'm working VERY slowly on one of the 28" barrel M1882 Trapdoor "short rifles". I have a genuine rod bayonet - one of 26 - which I am cloaking in reworked junker parts. Nothing "good" has been, or will be, harmed, I assure you. Hardest part was getting a "close" receiver.

ehull
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Re: Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

Post by ehull » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:11 pm

Dick,
I think you're remembering the M1867 Navy carbine forends with cartouche -- and Dixie used to have lots of them as well. They were surplus after Whitney altered the Navy carbines to .43 Spanish rifles for Hartley & Graham.

Dick Hosmer
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Re: Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

Post by Dick Hosmer » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:47 pm

Ed,

I do not think so (though I'm sure that what you stated also occurred).

While, at the time, I was basically "aware" of the four Trials carbines, I did not know just how rare the Remingtons and Sharps versions were/are, but I particularly recall wording to the effect that what they were offering was "longer" and was definitely not common, plus, I'm pretty clear that they actually showed the long nose and right-side band inlet. If not for their highlighting those features, I'd likely have forgotten about the parts, since I've never had any interest in the Navies. Thinking back even more, I believe they actually said they were for the SA-made arm.

Since I never throw anything like that away, I probably still have the ad, but where it is stashed is another question. I'll try to find the booklet.

FWIW. I have never, ever, even seen a picture of the Sharps. Two friends, who have collected Sharps arms for years are of the opinion that they were ALL returned to the factory and 'remanufactured' into sporting rifles. I simply do not know; the Remingtons are so rare that I'll never own one, unless I find it in the brush. That is a beautiful receiver you have - the "carbine" should be an eye-stopper.

ehull
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Location: So. California

Re: Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

Post by ehull » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:17 pm

Dick,
If you can find the ad, that would be great. Since the forestocks were "loose," that might indicate that the carbines had been disassembled and remanufactured into something else, probably by Hartley & Graham or some such firm. Since nothing potentially useful was ever discarded, the forearms were squirreled away. I have a carbine band for the M1870 types -- probably came the same way. I know of only 3 Springfield-Remington carbines remaining, and Matt pictures one. Roy Marcot had one, pictured in his Remington book.

Dick Hosmer
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Re: Trying to reconstruct a 1870 Springfield Trials Carbine

Post by Dick Hosmer » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:30 am

I'll work on it, but it could easily take months! :lol:

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