Need help identifying this rolling block..

Topics related to Pre - 1898 Remington Rifles
Enslaved87
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:12 pm

Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by Enslaved87 »

I'm sure you guys see this an awful lot. With that said, i've recently acquired a rolling block from a family member. It seems to have honest wear for its age. I bought George Layman's book and it really doesn't give me anything definitive. Any help would be appreciated!
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Enslaved87
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by Enslaved87 »

More pics.. the "C" is right behind the tang on the buttstock.
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stanforth
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:56 am
Location: Oxford England

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by stanforth »

It looks like a nice, honest piece.
To help identify it you will need to give us the calibre. As many Rolling Block rifles chamber a bottle neck round it is best to take a casting of the chamber, To do this block the barrel a bit ahead of the chamber and fill the chamber with molten 'woods metal' there is a brand name but I forget it. When it is solid, drive it out with a clearing rod from the muzzle.
You now have a cast of the cartridge. Using a vernier gauge measure the diameter at the base, shoulder and rim. If you have a copy of Barnes, 'Cartridges of the World' you can spend a happy hour or two checking.
Enslaved87
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by Enslaved87 »

Thanks for the advice! I will most certainly cast the chamber, I'm working to find the right metal locally to make it happen.

One other thing I've noticed is the rear sight having a "full peep' hole on it. I've seen hundreds of pictures of these rifles and I can count on my hands how many times I've seen this rear sight. Unfortunately for me, virtually all of those guns had clear markings on them indicating origin.
stanforth
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:56 am
Location: Oxford England

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by stanforth »

This should help you with finding the metal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood's_metal



Wood's metal, also known as Lipowitz's alloy or by the commercial names Cerrobend, Bendalloy, Pewtalloy and MCP 158, is a eutectic, fusible alloy with a melting point of approximately 70 °C (158 °F). It is a eutectic alloy of 50% bismuth, 26.7% lead, 13.3% tin, and 10% cadmium by weight.
‎Applications · ‎Toxicity · ‎Related alloys · ‎References

Your rifle is a military issue so I would not expect to see an indication of origin other than, in a few cases, a crest. The rifles in my modest collection do not have that indication. The one point that is clear is that it was made by Remington (Patent information on tang) post 1874 rather that a licenced manufacture. Once you have checked your chamber cast you should get a good idea as to the military it was issued too.

Good luck. You are about to experience one of the most interesting aspects of collecting.
Enslaved87
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by Enslaved87 »

Ok, so I did a poor man's mold of the chamber. Please see the attached photo for my measurements. I think I know what it is, but would any of you care to venture a guess? (please forgive my crude drawing!)
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Johnboat 225
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Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by Johnboat 225 »

I vote 43 Dutch Beaumont. Very similar to 43 Egyptian.
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stanforth
Posts: 173
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Location: Oxford England

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by stanforth »

I own and shoot 2 Egyptian Rolling Blocks and I can use Egyptian or Beaumont cartridges in them. I found this out when my usual supplier couldn't supply the Egyptian cases so I tried the Beaumont ones assuming that I would have to resize them but there was no need to do so.
Enslaved87
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by Enslaved87 »

stanforth wrote:I own and shoot 2 Egyptian Rolling Blocks and I can use Egyptian or Beaumont cartridges in them. I found this out when my usual supplier couldn't supply the Egyptian cases so I tried the Beaumont ones assuming that I would have to resize them but there was no need to do so.

Huh..I wouldn't have thought that would work out well with the different neck pitches. Very interesting.

I think my gun is .43 spanish, but I have purchased a handful of different cartridges to find out for sure. I will be sure to report my findings. Thanks to all for your input!
ehull
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Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by ehull »

Yes, more likely.43 Spanish because the frame type is post 1879. I didn't see the bore diameter listed...did I miss it?
Enslaved87
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by Enslaved87 »

ehull wrote:Yes, more likely.43 Spanish because the frame type is post 1879. I didn't see the bore diameter listed...did I miss it?

Yes I suppose I didn't mention that. That might help a little :D I slugged the barrel. The best I could come up with is .433 at the largest diameter, .426 at the smallest with calipers.
Enslaved87
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by Enslaved87 »

Well, I've caught the bug. I've been collecting all different types of firearms for many years, but these rolling blocks have stole my heart. I just picked up a neat Swedish variant. I'll be sure to share some photos!

Thanks again for all your help gents.
stanforth
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:56 am
Location: Oxford England

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by stanforth »

I am pleased to inform you that there is no known cure.
Johnboat 225
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:27 am

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by Johnboat 225 »

stanforth wrote:I own and shoot 2 Egyptian Rolling Blocks and I can use Egyptian or Beaumont cartridges in them. I found this out when my usual supplier couldn't supply the Egyptian cases so I tried the Beaumont ones assuming that I would have to resize them but there was no need to do so.
Similar situation here: I noticed that modern 43 Egyptian ammo (made I think from 32 ga. brass shotgun shells) chambered easily but the fired cases had the shoulder fire-formed into a different angle. I bought some modern 43 Dutch Beaumont and it chambers a little tight so that the rolling block did not want to finish closing by just a smidge. What I did was to chamber each of the 20 new 43 DB rounds and used a mallet to tamp the rolling fully closed using extreme care. That sort of formed the brass to the chamber so that subsequently the rolling block closes easily. I haven't fired any of the 43 DB yet.
Enslaved87
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:12 pm

Re: Need help identifying this rolling block..

Post by Enslaved87 »

New Swedish aquisition..

Now just need to find a source for 8x58R.. :mrgreen:
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