Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

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stanforth
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Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:56 am
Location: Oxford England

Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

Post by stanforth »

I use George Laymans book as my guide to military RB's. In it he states, and I quote, 'I would like to add, so there is no misunderstanding, that I DO NOT reccomend shooting the rolling-block in 7mm Mauser ' I can understand that in modern times the 7X57mm has been loaded way above the original specification.
It was my intention to handload, having first fire formed each case using black powder, light loads not exceeding 120 grn bullets. This would be for use in short (100yds.) and gallery ranges.
I have a rule where my collection is concerned and that is 'If you own it, you must shoot it'
Any serious advice wold be appreciated.
jon_norstog
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Re: Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

Post by jon_norstog »

Stanforth, I have owned and shot a Mexican contract 7mm since I was 15. I'm 70 now. Before the internet came along I never knew how dangerous the damn thing was. I shot factory ammo, handloads, even FN military ammo. The hotter the load, the more accurate it was. The biggest issue I found was case stretching.

If you follow your own plan of light loads you'll live forever. I would recommend NOT using black powder in thAT rifle, as its rapid twist rifling was not designed to deal with BP fouling. Also your accuracy will probably improve if you use a longer, heavier bullet.

You might want to have the action magnafluxed to check for cracks. If you are still nervous about the rifle don't shoot it. You'll acquire a flinch from seeing that monster hammer pop up like some jack-in-the-box and it will carry over into all your shooting.

Good luck!

jn
stanforth
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Re: Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

Post by stanforth »

JN.
I can give you a couple of years and have been shooting since 1954.
Thank you for your comments, I take them on board.
The idea of Black powder was not to shoot the gun for effect but to fire form the cases so that they are a perfect fit to the chamber and then reload them with smokeless. This is a standard practice with me.
Thank you again for you input.
stanforth
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Location: Oxford England

Re: Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

Post by stanforth »

To continue with the saga.
When I bought the rifle I also got 50 empty cares (once fired in the same rifle) they had been 175gns. factory loads. That meant that they should be fire formed to the chamber. Never the less I loaded 20 of them with a 130gn. Lead bullet over 30 gns of Pirodex CTG just to make sure. No bother and no change in dimentions. I then loaded 5 with 50gns. of H4831 over a 130 gn. jacketed bullet.. The same, no problem.

Since then I have been able to get some new, unfired brass, not easy in the UK, and the dimensions are the same and no head space problem.

So that means that this gun ( a 1902 model) is chambered for modern brass or I have been lucky.

Could it be that the dimensions on Rolling Blocks vary from rifle to rifle? There seems to be quite a few shooters who have had no trouble with full factory loads.
jon_norstog
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Re: Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

Post by jon_norstog »

Some of those rifles, at least, were quite well made, Stanforth. The issue for me was always the stretchy action, which caused brass to stretch out at the base. After about five loafing cycles the bases would start separating from the cartridges, letting a little hot gas leak back into the action. If you are having trouble getting empty brass, I can see how this could be an issue. I didn't know it was still possible to reload and shoot rifles in the UK.

Good luck with it!

jn
stanforth
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Re: Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

Post by stanforth »

jon_norstog wrote:Some of those rifles, at least, were quite well made, Stanforth. The issue for me was always the stretchy action, which caused brass to stretch out at the base. After about five loafing cycles the bases would start separating from the cartridges, letting a little hot gas leak back into the action. If you are having trouble getting empty brass, I can see how this could be an issue. I didn't know it was still possible to reload and shoot rifles in the UK

Good luck with it!

jn
I shouldn't have trouble with brass now that I trust the gun. We can get 7X57 factory loads but I was wary of them until now.
As far as loading for rifles in the UK, that's no problem. Getting factory loads is no problem. Our legal system is tolerant to most rifles as long as they aren't Auto's or Semi autos.
In fact I load for and shoot Rolling blocks in .32rf, .43 Egyptian (2 of them), 12.7 Swedish 3 of them) and 50/70 Gov ( a New York State ) and now it seems 7X57.
stanforth
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Re: Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

Post by stanforth »

An update.
I now have lots of 7X57mm cases.Most of them have been used in a Spanish Mauser and so I am fire forming them to match the chamber of my gun.
I use 30gn equivalent Pirodex ctg and a 130 gn cast bullet with fibre filler. This is mainly to re-form the cases so acquarcy is not important. Whith this load it shoots good groups but very low at 25 yards. I have to set the sight for 400 yards.!!

Once fire formed I used a 130 gn. boatail jacketed bullet with 44 gn. Hogdon 4831. Results at 100 yards = a little high with reasonable groups.

Next I used a 150gn. Boat tail with 43gns. of H4831. result. in the centre of the black and point of aim at 100yards.

Now I seem to have got over my worries and can match most other iron sighted military rifles ( that usually means Enfield SMLE or No.4 over here) I am happy.

The only thing now is to get some Hogdon 4895 ( no one seems to have it in stock at this time) and use a reduced load for cast bullets for fire forming and messing about on gallery ranges.
jon_norstog
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Re: Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

Post by jon_norstog »

Well Stanforth, looks like you are good to go. If your rifle is as good as mine, you will be happy I think. Mine would put 10 shots into a box about 1 1/2 inches wide by 2 1/2 inches high at 100 M. That was when I had a cheap scope mounted and shooting prone with a rest. The rifle itself is capable of better shooting.

I may ave mentioned it shot best with strong loads. Much to the dismay of most of this list, I would shoot FN military ammo and stiff handloads, often having to knock the block open with a stick. I have however heeded the consensus and given up my wicked ways. Anyway I have a No. 1 in 45-70 that is my main rolling block shooter.

Good luck on you

Jn
stanforth
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Location: Oxford England

Re: Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

Post by stanforth »

Another fact has reared it's head.

Normally I do not resize my cases but as the neck on fired 7mm cases is larger than the bullet I have been nipping the neck to hold the bullet before using a Lee Factory Crimp Die. However. With lighter bullets (130 gn Sierra boat tail Match) this won't work as the bullet falls into the case as I try to crimp it. Next.. neck size the case.. No good as this is then smaller diameter than the chamber and results in a sleight ammount of wind in my face. Not dangerous but it certainly spoils my aim.
I now use a very short neck crimp before the Factory crimp.

Because of their shape, this doesn't happen on 150gn and heavier bullets.

The 7X57mm round isn't the easiest to load but it is satistying when it all comes together.

I wonder if this small gas leak from the neck is what has got this round a poor reputation.
jon_norstog
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Re: Help with a 7mm Rollling Block

Post by jon_norstog »

I've never had that problem with any 7x57 I've owned or shot. You may have got one with a loose chamber. My own experience is that it is a fine round that gets a lot of value out of its relatively economical powder charge, with a much wider range of available bullets than, say, the .270 Winchester.

It might be worth your while to take a cast of the chamber and measure it.

jn
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