Tulsa GS find 1867 Navy carbine PHOTOS ADDED

[wsmrto]

I just happened to find a refinished, what appears to be an 1867 Navy Carbine. I ID the bottom notch for the center fire extractor,the concave Roller breech. The Navy "Anchor Proof" on the top of the barrel shank and the 4 digit SN 4411 on the left side of the barrel. There is a tag attached as to the owners xxxxx name in xxxx Alabama whose grandfather had it refinished over 40 years ago. Too bad it was really sanded down on the action and butplate. To make matters worse the wood was completely replaced but the price was fantastic (in the $300.range. He repeatedly told me that it was 50-70 but I hope not. I will be checking that tonite when I can get into the shop Should be a 50-45. The bore looks pristine, like it was fired a few times cleaned well, oiled or greased some, inspected by some gruff old Sergeant and put away till it was sold off and refinished by an apparently very good gunsmith. Photos will be up later today or tomorrow.

[Dick Hosmer]

Sounds like a good find - congratulations! Perhaps now you can find some rusted-out POS with a decent stock.

I'm still looking for an 1870 Trials carbine, in 50-55, to come out of the woodwork (couldn't afford one from a dealer).

[ehull]

A true M1867 Navy will have FCW and anchor on the right side of the frame. Navy barrels are not hard to come by, and too often fakers will add a barrel to a nondescript frame to upgrade the gun.

[wsmrto]

Absolutely true, I will take the wood off to check the markings on the tang. Also the center mounted pin ejector has been replaced with a very small thin rotary ejector on the side of the roller. Nothing that I can do about the refurbish done, but at least will account for one of the few remaining 67 Navy's. The bore is perfect and the reblue is very well done. No way to take it back to what it was originally. But I can enjoy it now by shooting it. I am busy with another job today so won't be able to do photos till maybe tonite. It is a very beautiful little carbine.

[Dick Hosmer]

Perhaps I am laboring under a misapprehension - is the Navy carbine rare, or even particularly scarce? Maybe some of the ads I see (but do not research) are not proper specimens?

Since I only collect the Springfield-made RBs, I have never tried to acquire one of those carbines.

[ehull]

Dick,
Half of the 5,000 M67 Navy carbines were altered to .43 rifles & carbines (which is why surplus barrels come up) and a few used up in service. Thus, today are scarce.

[Scorpion8]

Can't wait for pics!!! Haven't seen one of these before.

[wsmrto]

After taking the wood off I come up with the info that I hope with your help can answer some questions. The barrel has the SN 4811 clearly and deep stamped, the rear sight has been replaced with a similar base with 2 extra flip up as in express sights, the front sight is correct. The action has been heavily sanded and exterior marking are gone. The upper tang number is C11617, and the trigger guard /lower tang has #D5206 stamped deep and clear. There are no remaining marking on the stock / handguard with the letters 5C in the HG. Further disassembly and pictures will have to wait as I have a crew here doing a water heater change out and won't expose to view.

[oldremguy]

Attached are photographs of what an original 1867 Navy Rolling Block Carbine looks like.

photo 1 - Copy.jpg (222.47 KiB) Viewed 5444 times

photo 2 - Copy.jpg (236.78 KiB) Viewed 5444 times

photo 3 - Copy.jpg (216.5 KiB) Viewed 5444 times

Will add more photos in the second post.

Have a Good Day,
Matt

[oldremguy]

More photographs of the 1867 Navy Rolling Block Carbine.

photo 4 - Copy.jpg (221.91 KiB) Viewed 5444 times

photo 5 - Copy.jpg (184.75 KiB) Viewed 5444 times

photo 6 - Copy.jpg (175.17 KiB) Viewed 5444 times

Have a Good Day,
Matt

[wsmrto]

Oldremguy: Thanks, That is absolutely exactly what I have with the damn exception that the one I have is refinished so much on the action flats the markings are gone, the barrel is the same and the rear sight has been changed out to a 3 piece flip type express. I will take some Pics in the AM when the light is good. as in the posts above I reference the Numbers and markings that are visible. To bad the old owner had to "make it so pretty". Thanks so much for giving me and all the other followers something to compare with the real thing. That is a beautiful rifle.

[jon_norstog]

Why does the Navy need a carbine? Is it for the Horse Marines?

JN

[ehull]

Note the extra screw on the left side of the frame on the refinished carbine - that's a non- Navy frame which originally had the slide extractor (and the breech block is also cut for the slide extractor). It appears someone mated a nice original barrel and forestock to highly refinished frame parts from other sources. Thus, the mismatched tang numbers. If it's a good shooter then you certainly did not over pay.

[wsmrto]

JN very good question!! Back then the Navy not only had a detachment of Marine's on board ship,, but had to train the crews for both "Boarding Parties" and "Landing Parties" to capture harbor's, shore batteries and depots. Navy prefered to use short carbines, cutlasses and pistols in such tight confined areas. Also note the Navy carbines did not have saddle rings or such. If anything they had sling swivels for a carrying strap.

[JV Puleo]

A couple of points... these were NAVY carbines, intended for use by Naval landing parties. The Navy liked carbines for this purpose and had bought Smiths and Sharps & Hankins during the Civil War. At the time they were purchased, the Marines were still armed with muzzle loaders, usually M1861 &1863s. When the Marines went ashore in Korea in 1871, they borrowed the Navy's carbines, I suspect because the commander of the Marine landing force, Capt. McLain Tilton, had been a member of the board that recommended adoption of the Rolling Block. But — while the Navy adopted the RB, the Marines never did adopt it as their official arm. When the Navy adopted the M1870 RB rifle, these were sometimes loaned to Marines as well. The Marines adopted the M1868 Allin conversion in 1870 but it often took a long time for the new rifles to reach Marine detachments on ships far from home (which is why they didn't have them in Korea).

Original barrels and fore stocks, with all the proper markings, were sold by the Dixie Gun Works in the late 60s and came as a result of Turner Kirkland buying the remnants of SH&G. They were parts taken off the original carbines when they were made into rifles and carbines for sale in Latin America. Most of the faked Navy carbines don't include the bottom stud extractor because they were made on conventional, early RB actions. In that sense, this is the first I've seen with the correct extractor but they still can't disguise the non-Navy action.