Early Remington 36 Cal. Muzzleloading Percussion Rifle Photo
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TDoyle
Early Remington 36 Cal. Muzzleloading Percussion Rifle Photo
How the heck to you paste a JPEG in here? The menu's are all greyed out. I would really like to learn more about this early rifle. I think it is a fowler Octagonal 36 cal. Barrel stamped underneath E. Remington Ilion NY. The rifle appears to be very early. I estimate 1830's -1840's or 1850s at the latest. Lock is stamped Partridge. [/img]
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DavidFagan
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Re: Early Remington 36 Cal. Muzzleloading Percussion Rifle P
You can't "paste" an image to a board, you can display it if it's hosted somewhere usingTDoyle wrote:How the heck to you paste a JPEG in here? The menu's are all greyed out. I would really like to learn more about this early rifle. I think it is a fowler Octagonal 36 cal. Barrel stamped underneath E. Remington Ilion NY. The rifle appears to be very early. I estimate 1830's -1840's or 1850s at the latest. Lock is stamped Partridge. [/img]
the img buttor or alt+p. If you want a image posted on this site mail it to
remington@remingtonsociety.com and put it up with a post displaying it.
David J. Fagan
The Silicon Sorcerer
The Silicon Sorcerer
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DavidFagan
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Here's a link to the photo in the gallery
http://www.remingtonsociety.com/gallery ... ber?full=1Anonymous wrote:Thank you for the information David. I will email a quick photo, when I get back home. If you have any information on old fowlers of this period I would be very interested. Regards, Tom
David J. Fagan
The Silicon Sorcerer
The Silicon Sorcerer
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DavidFagan
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Roy_Marcot
Your .36 caliber "Remington " rifle...
Sir:
Noted Remington historian Jerry Swinney has conducted more research on early Remington history (prior to 1861) than anyone. His conclusion is that prior to 1850, Remington did not make or assemble sporting arms. Flintlock and percussion sporting arms featuring Remington barrels and/or lock plates and/or Remington marked patch boxes were the work of private gunsmiths throughout the Americas (1820s through the 1850s)... and are not Remington factory guns.
A brief mention in REMINGTON - AMERICA'S OLDEST GUNMAKER goes like this:
The peak of 19th-century population of most of rural upstate New York counties and towns came about 1840. Gunsmiths had been among the settlers who had flooded in to the area, and the prosperity of upstate New York that was fostered by the highly successful Erie Canal provided customers for the products of gun shops. At that time rifle barrels were commonly welded by hand with sledge hammers, but certain enterprising individuals began to set up forges to weld iron barrels under power-driven hammers. By this time, Remington had become a major supplier of rifle barrel blanks to gunsmiths in upstate New York, and soon to much more distant customers.
Eliphalet’s rifle barrels were not finished, rifled, or ready for assembly by gunsmiths. Remington started with barrel blanks, welded under the hammer out of flat wrought iron bars. Power hammers eased the tedious, laborious process of hammer welding by hand. The resulting barrels were wrought iron tubes of suitable length, apparently rough-reamed on the inside and ground to the traditional octagon form on the outside. The gunsmith-customer finish-reamed and rifled the barrel blank, and fitted a breechplug, sights, and ramrod thimbles. He also made a flash hole (or if the rifle were to be a caplock, fitted a drum or bolster and nipple) and a stock, and did all the other work required to turn out a finished rifle.
In 1832, less than four years after moving his establishment to the location alongside the canal, Remington built a large, frame factory building on a stone foundation. Soon thereafter, twenty workmen were busy making gun barrels and other metal goods.
Gunsmith shops--whose main products were rifles--opened all across New York State, and Remington's move to the banks of the Erie made it possible for his goods to be economically shipped far and wide. Remington’s product became exclusively rifle barrels. In the 1830s, Eliphalet formed a new and distinct partnership with Benjamin Harrington of Ilion to make the non-barrel products that had formerly been made at the little forge up Steele's Creek. The few fragmentary records of Remington's activity that survive from the 1830s, primarily forwarder's receipts, all relate to the shipment of barrels with a single exception, in which the shipment included several hundred pounds of sleigh runners. All of his shipments were to known riflemakers.
I hope this information is helpful to understanding your .36 caliber percussion rifle.
Roy Marcot
Remington Historian
Noted Remington historian Jerry Swinney has conducted more research on early Remington history (prior to 1861) than anyone. His conclusion is that prior to 1850, Remington did not make or assemble sporting arms. Flintlock and percussion sporting arms featuring Remington barrels and/or lock plates and/or Remington marked patch boxes were the work of private gunsmiths throughout the Americas (1820s through the 1850s)... and are not Remington factory guns.
A brief mention in REMINGTON - AMERICA'S OLDEST GUNMAKER goes like this:
The peak of 19th-century population of most of rural upstate New York counties and towns came about 1840. Gunsmiths had been among the settlers who had flooded in to the area, and the prosperity of upstate New York that was fostered by the highly successful Erie Canal provided customers for the products of gun shops. At that time rifle barrels were commonly welded by hand with sledge hammers, but certain enterprising individuals began to set up forges to weld iron barrels under power-driven hammers. By this time, Remington had become a major supplier of rifle barrel blanks to gunsmiths in upstate New York, and soon to much more distant customers.
Eliphalet’s rifle barrels were not finished, rifled, or ready for assembly by gunsmiths. Remington started with barrel blanks, welded under the hammer out of flat wrought iron bars. Power hammers eased the tedious, laborious process of hammer welding by hand. The resulting barrels were wrought iron tubes of suitable length, apparently rough-reamed on the inside and ground to the traditional octagon form on the outside. The gunsmith-customer finish-reamed and rifled the barrel blank, and fitted a breechplug, sights, and ramrod thimbles. He also made a flash hole (or if the rifle were to be a caplock, fitted a drum or bolster and nipple) and a stock, and did all the other work required to turn out a finished rifle.
In 1832, less than four years after moving his establishment to the location alongside the canal, Remington built a large, frame factory building on a stone foundation. Soon thereafter, twenty workmen were busy making gun barrels and other metal goods.
Gunsmith shops--whose main products were rifles--opened all across New York State, and Remington's move to the banks of the Erie made it possible for his goods to be economically shipped far and wide. Remington’s product became exclusively rifle barrels. In the 1830s, Eliphalet formed a new and distinct partnership with Benjamin Harrington of Ilion to make the non-barrel products that had formerly been made at the little forge up Steele's Creek. The few fragmentary records of Remington's activity that survive from the 1830s, primarily forwarder's receipts, all relate to the shipment of barrels with a single exception, in which the shipment included several hundred pounds of sleigh runners. All of his shipments were to known riflemakers.
I hope this information is helpful to understanding your .36 caliber percussion rifle.
Roy Marcot
Remington Historian
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Guest
Dear Mr. Roy Marcot,
Thank you for your thoughtful response to my posting. For months I had assumed that only the barrel had been made by Remington, and the rest of the gun done by an upstate gunsmith. The barrel is marked with "E. Remington" which from what I can glean puts the barrel between 1816 and 1846 at which time the stamp was changed to include "& Sons".
However, in reading "Remington Arms" by Alden Hatch(1956), I am absolutely dumbstruck by the photos of "the Gun", his first 1816 flintlock and this firearm. They are alike in every way. Also in the Hatch book, he discusses that the bulk of the business was barrels but that they also did produce finished guns and allowed gunsmith customers to stay with them and work on their guns at their shop as early as 1820 (pp 30-33). The photos are page 315 and page 43. I can send you a better photo if you like.
Thank you for your thoughtful response to my posting. For months I had assumed that only the barrel had been made by Remington, and the rest of the gun done by an upstate gunsmith. The barrel is marked with "E. Remington" which from what I can glean puts the barrel between 1816 and 1846 at which time the stamp was changed to include "& Sons".
However, in reading "Remington Arms" by Alden Hatch(1956), I am absolutely dumbstruck by the photos of "the Gun", his first 1816 flintlock and this firearm. They are alike in every way. Also in the Hatch book, he discusses that the bulk of the business was barrels but that they also did produce finished guns and allowed gunsmith customers to stay with them and work on their guns at their shop as early as 1820 (pp 30-33). The photos are page 315 and page 43. I can send you a better photo if you like.
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Roy Marcot
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- Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2002 2:25 pm
- Location: Tucson, Arizona
Early Remington History
Dear TDoyle,
Remington published Alden Hatch's book in 1956, and for many years it was "the Bible" on Remington firearms. When Remington Arms Company asked me to write their corporate history in 1996, I began a search of Hatch's personal notes and references. I discovered that Alden Hatch was neither a historian, nor knowledgeable about firearms. His book does not give even one footnote.
Hatch relied upon legend and folklore in writing much of the early history of Eliphalet Remington II... most of it wrong.
In my book: REMINGTON - AMERICA'S OLDEST GUNMAKER, the initial chapter was largely the work of noted Remington historian H.J. Swinney. He did not repeat Alden Hatch's fanciful words about early Remington history. You can get a copy of the book through the Remington Society Web site, if you wish.
Neither Jerry Swinney, nor myself have ever seen an early flintlock or percussion sporting rifle that we believed to be the product of E. Remington. For the longest time the company was engaged in fabricating rifle barrels and selling imported gun locks and gun furniture made in Birmingham.
Respectfully,
Roy Marcot
Remington Historian
Remington published Alden Hatch's book in 1956, and for many years it was "the Bible" on Remington firearms. When Remington Arms Company asked me to write their corporate history in 1996, I began a search of Hatch's personal notes and references. I discovered that Alden Hatch was neither a historian, nor knowledgeable about firearms. His book does not give even one footnote.
Hatch relied upon legend and folklore in writing much of the early history of Eliphalet Remington II... most of it wrong.
In my book: REMINGTON - AMERICA'S OLDEST GUNMAKER, the initial chapter was largely the work of noted Remington historian H.J. Swinney. He did not repeat Alden Hatch's fanciful words about early Remington history. You can get a copy of the book through the Remington Society Web site, if you wish.
Neither Jerry Swinney, nor myself have ever seen an early flintlock or percussion sporting rifle that we believed to be the product of E. Remington. For the longest time the company was engaged in fabricating rifle barrels and selling imported gun locks and gun furniture made in Birmingham.
Respectfully,
Roy Marcot
Remington Historian