Double Derringer Address Lines

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ECNE2021
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:10 am

Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by ECNE2021 »

Hello all!

I picked up what appears to be a Double Derringer third model. I am having a lot of difficulty identifying the variation based on the address. It is REMINGTON ARMS CO. ILION N.Y. on the top rib. I think this is the "short" address version. Total length of the address line is 40mm. It is in good shape. Shows some wear on right hand side but the nickle is in pretty good shape othewise. Not sure if that is from use or that it set on its side in a felt case for 50 plus years.

Can anyone shed some light on the variation this might be based on the address line?

Thank you!

Eric
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admin
Site Admin
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Re: Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by admin »

yes Shortline
Serial less then 3022 (I think that's the number offhand)
I don't know there is a definitive order for the rest but it's believed the shortline was first.
1888-1891 has always been my guess.
ECNE2021
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:10 am

Re: Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by ECNE2021 »

Interesting and good to know. I looked again and there is a 521 stamp bottom of the lower barrel and same under the hard black rubber grip. I assumed it was a batch number, not a serial number. Than you for looking and commenting!
admin
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Re: Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by admin »

Shortline is the only one this model not batch, the others they went from 1-9999 and then started back over at 1.
Sounds like it was made in 1888 to me, there's probably people that know more about them and could tell me I'm wrong still...
ECNE2021
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:10 am

Re: Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by ECNE2021 »

Did a little more looking. I have a subscription to the Blue Book and found this there.

"Remington Arms Co. Ilion. N.Y. Side Address (1889-1893),first address, short line, all are batch numbered, estimated production of 8,000." Interesting that they list it as a "Side Address" when the address is on the rib.

Seems to support the date range but points to a batch not a serial.

This is my first "old" Remington and I am getting an appreciation for all the comments I have seen here about the way things were or were not tracked! Always interesting to go on these fact finding exercises. If anyone has access to the "Dr William H. Elliot's Remington Double Deringer" book or other refs, I would appreciate knowing what you think too. Its surreal holding it thinking it potentially was manufactured over 130 years ago.

Thank you all!
Eric
admin
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Re: Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by admin »

ECNE2021 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 9:51 am Did a little more looking. I have a subscription to the Blue Book and found this there.

"Remington Arms Co. Ilion. N.Y. Side Address (1889-1893),first address, short line, all are batch numbered, estimated production of 8,000." Interesting that they list it as a "Side Address" when the address is on the rib.

Seems to support the date range but points to a batch not a serial.

This is my first "old" Remington and I am getting an appreciation for all the comments I have seen here about the way things were or were not tracked! Always interesting to go on these fact finding exercises. If anyone has access to the "Dr William H. Elliot's Remington Double Deringer" book or other refs, I would appreciate knowing what you think too. Its surreal holding it thinking it potentially was manufactured over 130 years ago.

Thank you all!
Eric
Blue Book is wrong, they only made 3022 of them so they CAN'T be batched, Blue Book isn't the gospel look at how they classify the DD's, that's just not how DD collectors do it anyhow. Also the 4 barrel elliots there's two different frames, that's not in there. Changes somewhere around 18,000.
ECNE2021
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:10 am

Re: Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by ECNE2021 »

Gotcha, excellent to know. This is a brand new rabbit hole for me. Thank you!
aardq
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:02 pm

Re: Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by aardq »

Hi Ecne,

Welcome to the rabbit hole. The most important thing to look for in the DDs is the barrel hinge. They crack easily from having the bbls being closed by just flipping the gun with the wrist. Often you need a magnifying glass to check for cracks. Most collectors won't buy a DD with cracked hinge, unless it is cheap and they want a parts gun. Or if is one of the first 100 made, with the "manufactured by" marking in the side.

Warning, this rabbit hole is deep, with many twisting tunnels leading off of the main path. :D
Cloverleaf
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Joined: Sun May 24, 2020 3:59 pm

Re: Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by Cloverleaf »

Congrats.
You can now post this in the Pre 1899 section.
I can't find a "Like" tab on this forum so I say....."Like"
aardq
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:02 pm

Re: Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by aardq »

Hi Eric,
Just confirming what the Admin, David told you. The short lines were the first of the Rem Arms Co made, and the only variation that was sequentially serial numbered. All other variations were batch numbered, and the batch sizes varied, so there is no hard, fast rule on these variations.

I went through the DD book, and the 8000 estimate is originally from collector, J. Wayne Mathews who found some factory records. The trouble with this we don't know what records Mathews had access to, and no one else has confirmed this number. Most collectors believe the 3000 number, and no one has stepped up with a first variation having a serial over 4000. Enough of these were made, that if it was over 4000, some of those serials would have turned up. His 8000 number has been quoted by several sources including the DD book, The Blue Book, while others believe the 3000 number, but no one knows for sure.

No matter what, you know that your gun was made in the first year of production, 1888, no matter how many were made.

Enjoy your gun,
Daniel
admin
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Re: Double Derringer Address Lines

Post by admin »

aardq wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:18 am Hi Eric,
Just confirming what the Admin, David told you. The short lines were the first of the Rem Arms Co made, and the only variation that was sequentially serial numbered. All other variations were batch numbered, and the batch sizes varied, so there is no hard, fast rule on these variations.

I went through the DD book, and the 8000 estimate is originally from collector, J. Wayne Mathews who found some factory records. The trouble with this we don't know what records Mathews had access to, and no one else has confirmed this number. Most collectors believe the 3000 number, and no one has stepped up with a first variation having a serial over 4000. Enough of these were made, that if it was over 4000, some of those serials would have turned up. His 8000 number has been quoted by several sources including the DD book, The Blue Book, while others believe the 3000 number, but no one knows for sure.

No matter what, you know that your gun was made in the first year of production, 1888, no matter how many were made.

Enjoy your gun,
Daniel
3022 - someone had it ;)
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