Help with Manufacture Date

Topics related to Pre - 1898 Remington Pistols
Post Reply
Sturm1953
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:43 pm

Help with Manufacture Date

Post by Sturm1953 »

Happy New Year

I'm new to this forum, but not new to collecting firearms. I have a 1861 New Model .36 caliber Remington Revolver I was hoping to get some information on. I bought it about 20 years ago for around $400 (as it appeared to have been reblued). The serial number under the rammer is 46880 and most/all of the inspectors stamps I've located (without disassembly) are the letter "c". There is the remains of a cartouche located on the left grip, but it is mostly the lower portion of the outside box outline - no readible initials.

Two questions, if I may - any idea as to the year/month of manufacture and/or unit issued to. Second question, I am thinking of removing the bluing using vinegar - how will this affect the value. It appears to be in good condition, except for a couple spots of pitting around the muzzle.

Any help to a Remington newbie would be greatly appreciated. Stay healthy!

George
aardq
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:02 pm

Re: Help with Manufacture Date

Post by aardq »

Hi George,

Welcome to the crazy world of Remmies. Pictures always make it easier to help with questions. The 44 pistols were called Army revolvers regardless of who bought them or who they were issued to. The 36s, like yours are called Navy revolvers.

Your pistol raises questions. First check the other 2 serial locations. Under the left grip on the bottom of the frame, and on the tab, inside the trigger guard. Your serial is 13,280 past the last of the government contracts for Navy pistols, 33, 600, so it must be a civilian gun, and probably made near the end of production of this model about 1870.

It appears to have inspector's marks on some of the parts, and the remnant of an inspector's cartouche on the left lower grip. This indicates a gun for a government contract, but the barrel serial is certainly a civilian gun. There are several possible reasons for this, but you need to confirm the serial on the frame. Again, pictures are very helpful.

Unless the bluing is really screwed up, leave it alone, at least for now. It may be a candidate for a re-blue, but post some pic first.

What ever is found out about your pistol, you have a piece of history, so enjoy your gun.
Daniel
aardq
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:02 pm

Re: Help with Manufacture Date

Post by aardq »

Hi again,

Forgot to tell you that your serial is for a New Model Navy, not an 1861, or as they are also called, an Elliot model, or Old Model Navy. Not many 1861s were made between the end of the Beals production, and the start of the New Model production. We need pic to determine which model you have, but the serial means it's a New Model. Or, it may be an 1861, with a replaced barrel. Did I mention that pictures are required?

Daniel
Sturm1953
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:43 pm

Re: Help with Manufacture Date

Post by Sturm1953 »

Daniel - your response is much appreciated. I'm working on taking off the grips to compare frame serial numbers, but I need to get a better screwdriver so I don't bugger the screw like someone did to the one behind the cylinder.

I may have inadvertently given erroneous information regarding the model (i.e., .36 or .44 caliber). I measured from the end of the barrel to the end of the cylinder and it isn't 8 inches, but 7 7/8 inches. Did they round it off to 8 inches or is it indeed a .36 caliber Navy? I was kind of hoping it was military issue, but it is what it is. I already know that the front sight has been changed out, since it is a blade-type, rather than the cone.

Photos of all markings to follow

Thank you again for your help.
George
aardq
Posts: 276
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:02 pm

Re: Help with Manufacture Date

Post by aardq »

Hi George,

Barrel length is nominal, and not always exact. They may vary by 1/8", or even by 1/4". Rem wasn't going to scrape a barrel just because it was a little shorter than normal.

Looking forward to seeing your pictures.

Daniel
Sturm1953
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:43 pm

Re: Help with Manufacture Date

Post by Sturm1953 »

Attached are the photos of my Remington "1858" Army Model Revolver.

The serial numbers under the barrel (46880), on the trigger guard, and on the frame under the left grip are all matching. A couple other numbers/letters on the rear of the cylinder. 4 very small single letter/symbol stamp on left and right rear of barrel (just in front of frame) and left and right of frame (just forward of cylinder).

There is a four digit number (1698), written in pencil, on the back side of the left wooden grip. Also, the bottom of the left grip has a repair as can be seen by the peg. The cartouche is mostly worn away, but pictured.

Most of the bluing is a very dark blue-black, but this is worn away from the inside of the strap. Lastly, as mentioned, the front site is a blade, not a cone.

Thank you for all your help and I eagerly await any help you can provide regarding the heritage of the revolver as well as whether it would be a good idea to remove the bluing. There appears to be very little pitting, escept a couple tiny pits below the front sight on the muzzle.
Attachments
IMG_2413.JPG
IMG_2413.JPG (838.85 KiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2408.JPG
IMG_2408.JPG (1.15 MiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2404.JPG
IMG_2404.JPG (678.1 KiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2402.JPG
IMG_2402.JPG (1.16 MiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2433.JPG
IMG_2433.JPG (989.2 KiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2432.JPG
IMG_2432.JPG (1.59 MiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2431.JPG
IMG_2431.JPG (1.55 MiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2430.JPG
IMG_2430.JPG (1.72 MiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2429.JPG
IMG_2429.JPG (1.53 MiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2402.JPG
IMG_2402.JPG (1.16 MiB) Viewed 377 times
Sturm1953
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:43 pm

Re: Help with Manufacture Date

Post by Sturm1953 »

Here are the remainder of the photos - sorry if there were too many
Attachments
IMG_2402.JPG
IMG_2402.JPG (1.16 MiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2414.JPG
IMG_2414.JPG (704.12 KiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2413.JPG
IMG_2413.JPG (838.85 KiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2408.JPG
IMG_2408.JPG (1.15 MiB) Viewed 377 times
IMG_2404.JPG
IMG_2404.JPG (678.1 KiB) Viewed 377 times
Patbar
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:14 am

Re: Help with Manufacture Date

Post by Patbar »

The Remington Navy model has a 7 3/8 inches long barrel whereas the Army model has a 8 inches long barrel.

The barrel and chambers walls are much thicker on the navy model than on the army model, due to the smaller caliber (as the barrels and cylinders have the same diameter on the two models). So, I suppose that it is in order that the navy model would not be heavier than the army model that Remington shortened the barrel a bit.
Sturm1953
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2021 4:43 pm

Re: Help with Manufacture Date

Post by Sturm1953 »

Thank you for your response and info. According to Daniel, at 7 7/8 inches from muzzle to front of cylinder, it could be an Army model. Is that the correct method of measuring barrel length or is there some other method unique to Remington?

All the best
George
Post Reply