BOOK ADVICE
BOOK ADVICE
Interested in the SA Belt revolvers and the DA Ryder Belt Revolvers. Have Golden Age of Collecting by Robert Ball. Is there a better and more informative book on these Revolvers? Does Ware's book on Army and Navy models cover these models in any detail??? Thanks..........Jim
Re: BOOK ADVICE
Hi Jim,
To my knowledge there is not a book which covers the Belt Model in any detail. Don Ware's book only mentions them three times but no detail.
BIll
To my knowledge there is not a book which covers the Belt Model in any detail. Don Ware's book only mentions them three times but no detail.
BIll
Re: BOOK ADVICE
Bill: Thanks for the reply.
Seams as thought the Belt SA and DA (Ryder) have been neglected by collectors. They appear to be manufactured together, using the same serial number series. .....Jim
Seams as thought the Belt SA and DA (Ryder) have been neglected by collectors. They appear to be manufactured together, using the same serial number series. .....Jim
Re: BOOK ADVICE
Fladerman's Guide to Antique American Firearms says there were from 2500 to 3000 Single Action and 3000 to 5000 Double Action Belt models manufactured. It also says that the Double Actions were probably serial numbered along with the Single Actions.
Bill
Bill
Re: BOOK ADVICE
Just goes to show that little is known about these models. Did a quick survey the last 2 days and found the following.
Lowest Ryder # 98......Lowest Belt # 450
Highest Belt # 7824...Highest Ryder # 5332.
Would like to ask our members to participate in a survey. What do you think????.........Jim
Lowest Ryder # 98......Lowest Belt # 450
Highest Belt # 7824...Highest Ryder # 5332.
Would like to ask our members to participate in a survey. What do you think????.........Jim
Re: BOOK ADVICE
Jim,
The Richard A Bourne Auction Catalog of the Karl F Moldenhauer collection , October 29 1980,
has hand drawn sketches, showing some differences between the Belt Model Single Action (SA) and the Rider Double Action (DA). You will also see listed 5 SA's and 10 DA's with descriptions
it has been out of print for a long time, but might be available from used book sellers.
I hope this might be helpful.
The Richard A Bourne Auction Catalog of the Karl F Moldenhauer collection , October 29 1980,
has hand drawn sketches, showing some differences between the Belt Model Single Action (SA) and the Rider Double Action (DA). You will also see listed 5 SA's and 10 DA's with descriptions
it has been out of print for a long time, but might be available from used book sellers.
I hope this might be helpful.
Re: BOOK ADVICE
Thanks Chuck....Good idea...................Jim
Re: BOOK ADVICE
Hi All,
Here I come, late to the party. Have to agree that not much is written about the Belts. All SA and DA Belts are called Belts. I haven't seen the word, "Ryder" used for one and not the other. The DA came first and was based on Ryder's DA pocket Model. The SA came later, and some say that the two were serialized in the same range, or were they?
Much research is needed on these models and most of what is written is conjecture. The first DAs had fluted cylinders and I've seen estimates of 200 to 2,000 made with the flutes. One of my fluted DAs is 5332, so go figure!
One thing for sure, there are no known fluted conversions. Because the cylinders were replaced, that can throw off any assumptions, since we'll never know if a conversion originally had a fluted cylinder.
There are several estimates of total produced, ranging from 2,500 to 5,000 for each. I have read that about half were converted, or were made as a cartridge version, but no one knows for sure. Look at my list, and please tell me that you can figure it out, because I sure can't.
946 DA Fluted per
1745 SA Smooth cyl per
5332 DA Fluted per
5641 DA conversion
9331 SA conversion
The only thing that makes sense from these numbers is that they might have been numbered by version. The highest number lends credence that 10,000 total were made.
I'll check a few books and post what I find.
There ya have it from this corner, good luck with your research.
Here I come, late to the party. Have to agree that not much is written about the Belts. All SA and DA Belts are called Belts. I haven't seen the word, "Ryder" used for one and not the other. The DA came first and was based on Ryder's DA pocket Model. The SA came later, and some say that the two were serialized in the same range, or were they?
Much research is needed on these models and most of what is written is conjecture. The first DAs had fluted cylinders and I've seen estimates of 200 to 2,000 made with the flutes. One of my fluted DAs is 5332, so go figure!
One thing for sure, there are no known fluted conversions. Because the cylinders were replaced, that can throw off any assumptions, since we'll never know if a conversion originally had a fluted cylinder.
There are several estimates of total produced, ranging from 2,500 to 5,000 for each. I have read that about half were converted, or were made as a cartridge version, but no one knows for sure. Look at my list, and please tell me that you can figure it out, because I sure can't.
946 DA Fluted per
1745 SA Smooth cyl per
5332 DA Fluted per
5641 DA conversion
9331 SA conversion
The only thing that makes sense from these numbers is that they might have been numbered by version. The highest number lends credence that 10,000 total were made.
I'll check a few books and post what I find.
There ya have it from this corner, good luck with your research.
Re: BOOK ADVICE
aardq: Thank you for your informative post. Better late than never. Please check my "RESEARCH PROJECT" post of January 25, I would like to add your 5 revolvers to the survey. ( PM if more confident)
So far I can confirm that about 10,000 were produced. Serial numbers from #1 up, both models were in the same serial sequence.
Yes, no fluted cylinder models were converted to cartridge thus far on the survey.
Lowest serial number for the Rider model is #4, engraved, blue with Ivory grips,.36 percussion.
Lowest serial number for the Belt model is #6, again it was engraved, nickel, with Ivory grips, .36 percussion. Perhaps for exhibition purposes as the next lowest # is 450.
Highest serial number for the Rider model is #5797, blue, .38 calibre.
Highest serial number for the Belt model is #8985 (except for your model) blue and in .36 percussion.
Time wise, production start in the late CW period, 1863. I believe production ended when the Company was sold in 1888.
I welcome you response, comments etc..............Jim
So far I can confirm that about 10,000 were produced. Serial numbers from #1 up, both models were in the same serial sequence.
Yes, no fluted cylinder models were converted to cartridge thus far on the survey.
Lowest serial number for the Rider model is #4, engraved, blue with Ivory grips,.36 percussion.
Lowest serial number for the Belt model is #6, again it was engraved, nickel, with Ivory grips, .36 percussion. Perhaps for exhibition purposes as the next lowest # is 450.
Highest serial number for the Rider model is #5797, blue, .38 calibre.
Highest serial number for the Belt model is #8985 (except for your model) blue and in .36 percussion.
Time wise, production start in the late CW period, 1863. I believe production ended when the Company was sold in 1888.
I welcome you response, comments etc..............Jim
Re: BOOK ADVICE
A PM was sent. I have the Moldenhauer catalog with the SA and DA drawings if you'd like them. Several sources say that the Belt Model competed with the Rem Navy and that the Belts were discontinued in the mid-to late1870s. Remington Arms Co took over from E. Remington & Sons, in 1886, and by 1888 changed the markings on all Rem guns. They also stopped making all Rem pistols except for the Double Derringers, the Rolling Blocks, and the 1888 and 1890 revolvers. The 1890 was dropped in 1896.
Remington made special order guns, and any single or double digit serial on a pistol, engraved and or plated, and with non walnut grips was probably a special order, and no way to know when it was made.
Remington made special order guns, and any single or double digit serial on a pistol, engraved and or plated, and with non walnut grips was probably a special order, and no way to know when it was made.